1 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:20,040 I swore on the kids' lives that I wouldn't shop Rose for what she did. 2 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,880 {\an8}I'd take the blame and be done with it. 3 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,680 And then Rose can get the children back, and they could just carry on. 4 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,960 And that's been worrying me. 5 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,880 They know that she's mixed up in it, don't they? 6 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,480 Gloucestershire police are facing an increasingly complex task 7 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,960 as the number of bodies recovered in 25 Cromwell Street continues to grow. 8 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,680 The police are still not ruling out the possibility of more discoveries. 9 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,960 So at that point, we had found nine bodies. 10 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,680 And we knew there was other members of his family 11 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,280 who were missing and unaccounted for. 12 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,040 So we knew it was a possibility that there was more bodies there. 13 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,160 Early on, the murder squad draw up a family tree, big family tree, 14 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,640 to find out who's missing. 15 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,760 {\an8}And there was a question mark about Fred's first wife, Rena, 16 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,720 {\an8}and her daughter, Charmaine. 17 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,000 {\an8}No one's seen her since 1971, over 20 years. 18 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,560 Can we recap? 19 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,240 Yesterday, you indicated a field at a place called… 20 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:10,320 Kempley. 21 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,600 Who is buried there? 22 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:14,920 Rena. 23 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,000 Do you reckon you can… you'll be able to take us to the spot then, Fred? 24 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,480 Yeah, it's marked with a tree. 25 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,800 {\an8}That's Mr. West, his solicitor, 26 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,280 {\an8}an entourage of, uh, police officers. 27 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,520 The area that the prisoner was indicating 28 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:52,160 that, uh, the remains will be found 29 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,680 is under the, uh, nearest tree. 30 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,880 The body of Catherine Costello was found 31 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,640 in a cornfield near Gloucester earlier this week. 32 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,120 Police had been digging there after switching their operation from the house 33 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,560 where Mr. West lived and where nine other bodies were found. 34 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,400 Without Fred's indication of where Rena Costello is, 35 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,680 we wouldn't have gone and dug up a random field in Much Marcle. 36 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,800 So that information came from Fred. 37 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,600 So the question is, why was Fred telling us that? 38 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,760 And there was more information coming through all the time. 39 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,200 So, we actually came back here 40 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,800 late in the evening, 41 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,160 {\an8}and, um, we walked straight across the field. 42 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,720 Um, it was quite dark. 43 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,480 But he really wanted to come back to this field 44 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,520 because this is where Ann McFall was buried. 45 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,440 When I came back from that field and said to Janet that there was a girl, Ann… 46 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,160 - Ann? - Ann McFall. 47 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:06,240 Ann McFall. 48 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,840 Ann McFall was a Scottish teenager 49 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,840 who Fred met in Glasgow when he was with Rena. 50 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,680 She, in fact, becomes the West nanny. 51 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,560 {\an8}And she hadn't been seen since 1967. 52 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,920 You start to think, how many more victims were there? 53 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,440 But all I hope is that all efforts are made to find Ann altogether. 54 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:35,680 They will be. 55 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,040 That's what I want. 56 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,800 The police were still in the dark about a lot of things, 57 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,160 so they're still reliant upon Fred providing that information. 58 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,640 He knew the more that he could take on board himself, 59 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,200 {\an8}the less that this was going to come onto Rose. 60 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,200 {\an8}Where the difficulty was always going to be 61 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,200 was the death of Charmaine, 62 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:09,560 because he was not going to be able to put Rose out of the picture. 63 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,040 What we'd like to know, Fred, is what happened to Charmaine? 64 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,680 Did these dreadful things happen to this little child? 65 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,680 I don't know. 66 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,320 When she went missing, 67 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,440 we knew Charmaine lived with Fred and Rose at this previous address, 68 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,480 25 Midland Road. 69 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,480 We began to search the premises. 70 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,000 {\an8}Arriving at the scene at 25 Midland Road, 71 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,640 {\an8}this is Mr. Frederick West. 72 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,640 {\an8}That room wasn't there. 73 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,560 {\an8}- Yeah? - This was a hallway. 74 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,200 {\an8}This was a breakfast room here. 75 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,440 {\an8}Do you realize why you're here? 76 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:06,760 {\an8}Yeah. 77 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:08,200 {\an8}Tell us, then. 78 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:10,120 {\an8}To tell you where Charmaine is. 79 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,320 {\an8}Right. We need to know if you can help us at all. 80 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:14,240 {\an8}Yeah. 81 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,440 {\an8}He was sort of looking round the backyard. 82 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,320 {\an8}There was, like, a crack going right up the house, 83 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,840 {\an8}and there was, um, a mark on the wall, 84 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,160 and he said that's where Charmaine was, in the middle of the foundations. 85 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,320 {\an8}Sorry, Fred, Charmaine would have been 86 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,320 {\an8}- in there, where you're indicating? - Yeah. 87 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,920 {\an8}Can you try and mark it with that? 88 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,440 {\an8}How old was she, Fred? 89 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,520 {\an8}She must have been seven or eight. 90 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,800 Dig site number three, and now an 11th body. 91 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,080 Late last night, a few feet under the kitchen foundations 92 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,240 of Frederick West's former home in Gloucester, 93 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,280 they uncovered human remains. 94 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,840 Pathologist Professor Bernard Knight is now examining them in situ. 95 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,760 His initial findings will determine the age and sex of the victim. 96 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,480 I don't know if you're aware or not, 97 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,360 Fred, there's been a find at Midland Road. 98 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,400 Ah, yes. 99 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,040 Any comment you'd like to make? 100 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,200 Just glad that they found her, that's all. 101 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,280 "Find her." By "her" you mean… 102 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,080 Well, it must be Charmaine. 103 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,560 Having had all the admissions from Fred, 104 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,240 {\an8}we were still working so hard 105 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,320 {\an8}to get the evidence to prove that Rose was involved. 106 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,280 How did Rose get on with Charmaine? 107 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,320 Well, Rose accepted them as my daughters, as far as I know. 108 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:16,840 As far as you know. 109 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Rose apparently used to abuse Charmaine. 110 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:30,560 {\an8}I can remember when we were in the house, Fred telling of how Rose used to make her 111 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,080 {\an8}stand on a chair in the kitchen with her hands tied behind her back 112 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,360 for hours and hours on end as a punishment. 113 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:41,960 Did you kill Charmaine, Fred? 114 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:45,280 No comment. 115 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,080 - Fred, did that happen? - She was my daughter. 116 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,120 Why kill her? 117 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,120 I can't understand that. 118 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,160 I got no comment on that. 119 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,600 But it doesn't make sense to me, Fred. 120 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,400 Early in the investigation, 121 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,360 they found a box of letters, 122 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,240 including prison letters, between Fred and Rose. 123 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,520 Fred was serving a prison sentence for a petty offense. 124 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,840 And in one of these letters, Rose said to Fred, 125 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:20,280 "Darling, about Charmaine, she likes to be handled rough." 126 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,720 "Why do I have to be the one to do it?" 127 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,160 Charmaine started playing up. 128 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,600 Um, got cheeky towards Rose. 129 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,360 I said, "You're just going to have to try and control it until I can come home." 130 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,640 The evidence was mounting up 131 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,880 at the time of her death, Fred was likely to have been in prison. 132 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,560 We suspected the person responsible for the death of Charmaine was Rose. 133 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,160 But at that point, we had no way of proving it. 134 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,120 My job is identifying the dead 135 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,920 and making absolutely sure that we knew which set of remains were which. 136 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,640 What I'm doing is collecting information, 137 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,440 photographs from family, you know, anywhere they can get them. 138 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:42,280 And superimpose it on the remains and look for points of similarity. 139 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,400 So, of course, I need a top-quality photograph 140 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,640 {\an8}and a lot of information in it. 141 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,040 {\an8}And I just wasn't getting it. 142 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,120 You can imagine what they're like, you know, little snapshots. 143 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,480 Faded, a lot of shadow, no teeth showing. 144 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,160 And this set of remains, Charmaine, 145 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,760 I was actually thinking we've got a major problem. 146 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,200 I couldn't determine when this person died. 147 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,080 But if we could get some quality image photographs 148 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,000 that we know are Charmaine, 149 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,160 then I might be able to do something. 150 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,120 We were looking at something that was 151 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,520 almost unprecedented in modern times. 152 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,040 We're talking about a period of 30 years, 153 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:56,200 {\an8}of people who were coming into contact with Fred and Rose West 154 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,800 who were not seeing the reality of their lives. 155 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,680 {\an8}The government decided there had to be an inquiry. 156 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,840 {\an8}For me, the task was actually trying to sort out 157 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,400 what actually went on with the children 158 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,440 in that house in Cromwell Street. 159 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,880 {\an8}How come it looks all black and white? 160 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,600 {\an8}It looks all blue, don't it? 161 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:29,080 {\an8}We felt a lot happier to be at school, where we felt safe, um. 162 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,880 It was a better place to be than to be at home. 163 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,240 Get these rocks, Steve, they'll be nice. 164 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,480 Hello! 165 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,280 Mom always disciplined us. 166 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,840 She could never just hit us once and forget it. 167 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,480 She would just lose her temper in a big way over just a little thing. 168 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:55,960 And she wouldn't… 169 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:00,840 You know, once she started hitting us, I felt she found it hard to stop. 170 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,760 It was always our fault. It was always something we deserved. 171 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,160 It was obvious Mom and Dad didn't want us to say anything to anybody. 172 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,080 My girlfriend spoke to a teacher about, um, the beatings that I was having. 173 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:26,360 Um. 174 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,440 Really, in a way, I wanted them to do something about it, 175 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,160 but the risk was that we all split up, and that was something I didn't want. 176 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:37,720 We didn't have the courage 177 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,800 to be able to come out and say, "Look, this is happening to us." 178 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:49,320 {\an8}What we found was that the surviving children in the West family 179 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:53,960 {\an8}have experienced some appalling abuse. 180 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,960 {\an8}They know how horrible it could get, 181 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,600 {\an8}and they know that it could have got worse. 182 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,840 Faced with talking to the police, 183 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:13,000 the fear of what could happen must have been extraordinary. 184 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,760 I don't know if you've been told about Mae and Stephen at all? 185 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,000 - No. - Right. 186 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,280 They have told us that they are prepared to talk to us 187 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,600 about everything that they know about. 188 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,440 They're not going to lie. Mae's certainly not going to lie, anyway. 189 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,160 - Whatever Mae says will be the dead truth. - Will it? 190 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,160 It will be. Exactly. 191 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,920 Well, Mae has made allegations against you. 192 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,200 I don't believe it. 193 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,760 "About 1985, my dad began to touch 194 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,880 both myself and Heather in an indecent manner." 195 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,480 "He would touch me on a daily basis." 196 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,800 "Heather and I decided that when Dad had first started touching us, 197 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,800 that we would never give in." 198 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,120 "And we were both determined about it." 199 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,400 What about that then, Fred? 200 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,680 No comment. 201 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,480 If we're really looking for lessons from this particular case, 202 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,040 above all else, the importance of listening to children. 203 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,160 These murders would never have come to light 204 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,960 if it wasn't for the children of the Wests 205 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,040 saying that they had a sister under the patio. 206 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,760 They were brave enough to speak up. 207 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,800 By this stage, all victims have been recovered and identified. 208 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,600 That was the end of that part of the murder investigation. 209 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,440 We've got 12 victims, 210 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,720 we've got two suspects, 211 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,680 and now they've got enough evidence to charge Rose. 212 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,160 But she doesn't admit to anything, 213 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,080 so there's no smoking gun in this. 214 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,400 She's blamed her husband, who in turn took all the blame himself. 215 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,600 They were in it together, and they protected each other. 216 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,720 Frederick West is driven into Gloucester Magistrates Court. 217 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,880 Just minutes away from a reunion with his wife, Rosemary, 218 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,920 she arrived moments later. 219 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,600 This is the first time they'd seen each other 220 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,840 since they were arrested four months ago. 221 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,360 When I saw her in the holding suite, 222 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,520 {\an8}she was maybe a little pensive 223 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,840 {\an8}that she was getting into the dock with Fred West. 224 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,520 He imagined that she'd be maybe blowing him a kiss 225 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,240 and they might mooch along the bench to be closer in the dock. 226 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,160 No. 227 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,640 I go down there. Every seat is taken. 228 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,160 Fred West is brought up, so suddenly we see Fred West for the first time. 229 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,720 And I see this stocky, wild-looking man 230 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:51,400 with wild, curly hair, bright blue eyes, broken nose, gappy teeth. 231 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,160 And then Rose is brought up. 232 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,160 When Fred West was escorted into the dock, 233 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,400 he leaned forward and touched her shoulder. 234 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,280 She didn't acknowledge this gesture. 235 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:03,640 There appeared to be no communication between them, 236 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,640 Rosemary steadfastly ignoring him. 237 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,760 Later, when they were taken down, Fred West again tried to lean over 238 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,520 and touch his wife's back. 239 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,880 This time, the prison officer pushed away his hand. 240 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,520 That was the point. She made it obvious and public 241 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,320 that she was turning against Fred West. 242 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:28,400 Whatever Fred was trying to do to help her wasn't working. 243 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,200 So now she needed to distance herself. 244 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,400 You know what Rose is doing now? Distancing me and her. 245 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,520 See, I'm beginning to wonder, did Rose have any love towards me at all? 246 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,120 Or was I somebody there to use all the time? 247 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,800 I was easy touch and do as I'm told and not interfere. 248 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,760 He's starting now to see that this relationship is deteriorating 249 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,440 to the point where it may no longer exist. 250 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,360 "Why am I doing this? Why am I taking all the flak?" 251 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,040 Right, 252 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,520 I had asked you whether or not there was any other person 253 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:16,800 who was common… 254 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,440 to the 12 bodies. 255 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,280 Well, it's obvious there is, isn't it? Somebody else. 256 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,480 Fred West changes. 257 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,560 He realizes that his wife is betraying him. 258 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:41,360 Fred, monster though he was, is heartbroken, and he falls apart. 259 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,680 The reason I could not tell the truth is because I'm protecting somebody 260 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,920 and I am still protecting somebody. 261 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,720 I can't say it no plainer than that. 262 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,040 All I'd ask is a direct answer to a direct question. 263 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:55,840 Is Rose West the person? 264 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,160 The lines were becoming intensely drawn. 265 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,480 Fred West's whole situation was falling apart. 266 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,360 If I'm going to have any chance in this case at all, 267 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,400 I've got to go back and tell the truth. 268 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,840 Why should I take the rap? Rose broke every promise she made to me. 269 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,440 But I did none of it on my own. 270 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,480 I hated him. I hated what he did. 271 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,480 It's so unbelievable that you're trying to make sense of it every day. 272 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,360 I asked the police, "Could I see him?" 273 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,560 It was probably one of the hardest things I ever did, to face him. 274 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:56,840 He was just crying. 275 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,200 He was very, very down. 276 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,840 Um, I'd never seen him like that before. 277 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,000 And to see him cry was hard to sort of accept. 278 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:14,600 He told me that he would never tell anybody the whole truth, 279 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,600 that it was worse than I could imagine. 280 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,560 He promised me he would die with them never knowing 281 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,480 the full extent of what he did. 282 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,360 Good evening. 283 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,800 Frederick West, the Gloucester builder whose home concealed nine corpses, 284 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,040 has been found dead. 285 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,880 This lunchtime at Winson Green prison, 286 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,720 prison officers found him hanging in his cell. 287 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,200 There's little doubt that West's death 288 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,640 is a severe embarrassment to the prison authorities. 289 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,120 Yesterday, his son Stephen told the inquest his father 290 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,640 had said he planned to kill himself 291 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,080 in the belief it would free his wife, Rosemary. 292 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,640 He was yet again allowed to cheat the legal system 293 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,880 and all victim's families from doing the time for the crimes he committed. 294 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,120 {\an8}We were all very, very angry. 295 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,920 {\an8}Upset, but angry. 296 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,000 It was just… To us, it was like the chicken's way out. 297 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:34,600 Coward's way. 298 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:45,320 For months, I'd been involved in this dark depravity of the investigation. 299 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,840 We were just preparing for the court case. 300 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,880 The news hits. 301 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,520 The heart's been ripped out of the investigation. 302 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,280 It was devastating. 303 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,280 Rosemary West in public for the first time 304 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,520 since her husband was found hanging in his cell on New Year's Day. 305 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,320 According to Rosemary West's solicitor, Leo Goatley, 306 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,600 the case against her, which he claims was flimsy, is now even flimsier. 307 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,400 It was Fred who'd made admissions. 308 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,920 It was Rose that had always denied everything. 309 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,920 With him out of the picture, 310 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,560 it did occur to me, "Perhaps this is it, it's not going to go to trial." 311 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,920 I wasn't sure how she was going to feel. 312 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,960 They were husband and wife, and she loved him. 313 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,240 And I got to see Rose. 314 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,800 She was calm, she was quiet. 315 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:49,400 There was a tear in her eye, and yet a slight look of glee on her face. 316 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,600 And I think in her mind, she felt that she could well be off the hook. 317 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,720 Somebody had asked me, 318 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,840 as a family of a victim, what did I want to happen? 319 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,280 What would justice be? 320 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:25,920 I didn't think that anything would take away the pain. 321 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,720 But I had this real need to go and do something that was about reclaiming Lucy. 322 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,600 So I had initial contact with Marian. 323 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,680 And of course, the question is, when can we see her? 324 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,320 And I had to have a fairly honest conversation with her 325 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,000 about what she's going to see, what her expectations are. 326 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,800 But Marian being Marian, that didn't put her off one bit. 327 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,960 Russell arranged to meet us in a mortuary in Cardiff. 328 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,400 And I just went up and I… lifted the lid. 329 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,160 And there was Lucy's skull. 330 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,520 Such a beautiful thing. 331 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,400 And then I got the blanket 332 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,840 and I wrapped her skull in the blanket and put it back. 333 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,040 It was really the most healing part of the whole experience for me, 334 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:44,640 because it was like I didn't see the horror that had led to this. 335 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,720 I just saw the beauty. 336 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:53,360 And I just knew that it was the right thing to be doing. 337 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,040 I just wanted to reclaim Lucy as my sister. 338 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,400 If we just move across. 339 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,640 Yeah. The eyes, the eyes aren't bad there, actually. 340 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:29,840 - No. - It's just… 341 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,000 By this time, Frederick West was out of the picture. 342 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,720 And this particular set of remains, Charmaine, became absolutely crucial. 343 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,320 {\an8}Having identified all the other sets of remains, 344 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,040 {\an8}the one case that was really going to matter, Charmaine, 345 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,800 {\an8}I couldn't do anything with. 346 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,120 And then this photograph appeared. 347 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,440 Miraculously. 348 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,360 We'd got the quality, we'd got the teeth visible, 349 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,200 and also it was dated. 350 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,000 We could then look at the extent of change 351 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,360 that had occurred since the photograph was taken. 352 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,520 And if we can estimate that period of time, 353 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,600 we've not only identified Charmaine, 354 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,920 but we've determined when she died as well. 355 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:26,160 And that was very, very crucial evidence in the case against Rosemary West. 356 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,080 We were able to positively identify 357 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,880 Fred was in prison when Charmaine was killed, 358 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,800 which then purely put the onus onto Rose 359 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,120 as being the perpetrator of that single crime. 360 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:44,760 This was massive for us. 361 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:52,800 {\an8}This morning, Rosemary West was charged with the murder of Charmaine West. 362 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,560 Today, a spokesman said the Crown would be seeking 363 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,640 her committal to trial on the ten murder charges. 364 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:06,560 The whole country wants this horrible story to have a resolution. 365 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:12,160 And then midway through '95, the date was set, 366 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,320 Winchester Crown Court, October. 367 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,680 It was a cold day, but the sun was shining. 368 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,560 And, uh, our liaison officer met me for the trial. 369 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,920 And he said to me, "Would you like to go to the house?" 370 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,080 And, uh, I remember going in the street and standing in front of the house. 371 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,440 There was a wall there where she would sit when she was out having… 372 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,240 Out talking to friends, or the chip shop at the corner where she used to go. 373 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,800 So that was nice, him telling me things like that. 374 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,880 Then he took me around the back, 375 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,680 because I wanted to be where they'd found her. 376 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,600 It may sound weird… 377 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,400 I was glad she was found in the garden. 378 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,440 It just seemed that's where people get buried, 379 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,720 in the earth. 380 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:29,720 That's one small comfort I have from where she was laid to rest. 381 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,960 The next day then, a car was picking us up and taking us to the court. 382 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,240 My name is Brian Leveson. 383 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,760 In 1995, I was a Queen's Counsel. 384 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,480 {\an8}I was approached by the Crown Prosecution Service 385 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,240 {\an8}to prosecute the case. 386 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,240 I have prosecuted all sorts of crime. 387 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,880 But if I had to identify one case that lives with me the most, this is the case. 388 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,800 The leading counsel in the defense was Richard Ferguson QC, 389 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,800 one of the leading criminal barristers of the time. 390 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,960 No, I'm sorry. Professionally, we're not allowed to make any comment. 391 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,480 He led Sasha Wass, now Sasha Wass KC, 392 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,840 who was herself a very capable criminal lawyer. 393 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,160 I was asked whether I wanted to do this case, 394 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,040 and to be frank, there was no question of me turning it down. 395 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,360 It was an extraordinary case. 396 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,200 I was a junior counsel. I'd been doing criminal work for 13 years. 397 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,600 - Don't hold your breath. Okay? - Okay. 398 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,160 I'd done a couple of cases in which there'd been press interest, 399 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,440 but nothing like this. 400 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,240 There were press everywhere. 401 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,320 Hampshire police have mounted strict security along the route, 402 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,840 closing roads as the convoy made its three-minute journey 403 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,680 to Winchester city center. 404 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,120 It became like a piece of theater. 405 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,280 Murderer! Murderer! 406 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,600 Court three was a very large courtroom. 407 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:37,800 Rose is brought into the dock. 408 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,000 She's short, she wears spectacles, 409 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,320 she's got a gold cross round her neck. 410 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,480 She's doing her best to appear respectable. 411 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,040 And she's very subdued. 412 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,000 There's no show of emotion. 413 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,000 She just sits there and listens. 414 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,520 Rose West pleaded not guilty to all counts 415 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,360 and maintained her innocence from first to last. 416 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,520 One of the big challenges of the case 417 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:12,160 is that there was no evidence of a direct nature. 418 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,800 Nobody said, 419 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:19,840 "I saw Fred stab." Or "Rosemary strangle." 420 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,480 The case depended on circumstantial evidence. 421 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,720 Circumstantial evidence really relies on several different strands of evidence. 422 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,440 And in this case, the prosecution called several witnesses to say 423 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,320 that Rosemary West and Frederick West had acted together 424 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,560 in circumstances which were very similar, 425 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:49,000 said the prosecution, to the way in which the murder victims had been abused. 426 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,080 A succession of witnesses are called for the prosecution, 427 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,960 and I think maybe three or four in, we have Caroline Owens, 428 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,040 the one that got away. 429 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,040 Arriving in a closed van with other witnesses, 430 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,040 Caroline Owens came to Winchester Crown Court 431 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,720 with a first-hand account of what she claimed was a night of terror. 432 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,440 Caroline Owens became a really significant person, 433 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,640 because she was a documented case 434 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,440 of a woman whom the Wests had attacked together. 435 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,360 She comes into the witness box and she tells her story, 436 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,280 and it was the most powerful direct evidence against Rose. 437 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,120 I don't think 438 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,760 {\an8}people realize how much 439 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,160 {\an8}guilt survivors feel. 440 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,600 I realized they started killing three months after my court case in '72. 441 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,760 And to my mind, if I'd pushed the rape charge, 442 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,840 they would have been alive. 443 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,840 So, given that opportunity to actually be a witness against her… 444 00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:20,280 kind of set me free a little bit. 445 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:28,120 Even though, like, all my little secrets and my little demons were out there 446 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,880 on view to the world, 447 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,160 I actually, for the first time in my lifetime, I think, felt self-respect. 448 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,280 I went in there to get justice for the girls that didn't make it. 449 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,400 Caroline Owens was a very powerful witness, 450 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,680 and she kept herself together throughout all of her evidence 451 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,920 right until the end, um, when she broke down. 452 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,960 She felt she had to do justice for the girls that didn't make it. 453 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,920 That was a very telling piece of evidence. 454 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,080 The whole lead-up to the trial, and the trial, 455 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,960 {\an8}is very, very blurred, because all I can think at the time was, 456 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,800 "This has happened to Juanita. Oh my God, this has happened to Juanita." 457 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,000 "This is real." 458 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:41,160 "Now I'm going to have to re-hear it all again in a court, but I have to do it." 459 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,400 It was just panic attacks. 460 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,280 Anxiety was real bad. 461 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,240 You listen, 462 00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,800 you know what's going on and you can hear the gasps of other people listening. 463 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:05,160 Me personally, I couldn't take it all in, 464 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,640 listening to the amount of stuff that went on. 465 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:11,280 It was just… 466 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,840 How? How could they do it? 467 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,200 How or why? 468 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:30,520 The job of the lawyer is to advise their client 469 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,720 as to the benefits and the pitfalls of giving evidence. 470 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,840 But the ultimate decision is always, always the defendant's. 471 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:42,760 Rosemary West, on trial at Winchester, accused of ten murders, 472 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,280 today became the first witness called in her own defense. 473 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,560 She was reminded on several occasions 474 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,400 that it was up to her whether she wanted to give evidence. 475 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,640 She had a certain confidence. She wanted her day in court. 476 00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:58,920 The moment arrived at midday. 477 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,960 Mrs. West spoke of her troubled early life 478 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,600 and was often in tears as she described how she'd twice been raped 479 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,840 before she met Fred West at the age of 15. 480 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,760 She said that Frederick West had promised to love and care for her. 481 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,080 Because she was so young, she'd fallen for his lies. 482 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,520 And so she's led through her life with Fred at Cromwell Street, 483 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,840 whereby she gives us the impression that they lived separate lives 484 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,560 and Fred sent her out to have sex with other men, 485 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,160 leaving Fred at home. 486 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:29,920 And what Fred did at home when she wasn't at home, she didn't know about. 487 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,760 Rose West was very defensive and defiant 488 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,880 to the point of almost being convincing. 489 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,360 Uh, the stumbling block was when she was cross-examined. 490 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,800 Brian Leveson QC began his cross-examination. 491 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,360 He said, "You never saw anything that alerted you to the horror 492 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,400 of what had been happening at your homes?" 493 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,560 "That's right, sir," she replied. 494 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,600 Nor had she seen any unexplained bloodstains in the house 495 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,440 or anything to suggest that children had been sexually abused there. 496 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,040 Mr. Leveson then asked Mrs. West 497 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,320 about her eight-year-old stepdaughter, Charmaine. 498 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,400 He would be relentless, he wouldn't pause, he just kept going. 499 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,000 You could see her getting flustered and agitated 500 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,000 and frustrated by the process. 501 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,160 After further questions, she said, 502 00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:23,280 "I couldn't have killed a little girl at that time or at any time." 503 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,920 "You abused that girl," said Mr. Leveson. 504 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,800 "Not to the extent you'd like to think," said Mrs. West. 505 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,560 "You killed her and kept the body for Fred to bury." 506 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,000 "No, sir, where could I have kept a body in Midland Road?" 507 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,320 She saw no evil, heard no evil, and did no evil, 508 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,640 whilst, of course, living in the same small house as a mass murderer. 509 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,560 As a journalist, as a reporter, 510 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,760 you're never supposed to pay witnesses, certainly before a trial, 511 00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,640 but we found ways round it. 512 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,840 The money is paid after conviction. 513 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,200 And I confess, I offered witnesses money. 514 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,160 And the money goes up and up. 515 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:13,640 You start at 1,000, 5,000, 10,000, 30,000. 516 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,240 Press payments was an enormous issue in the trial 517 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:26,320 because it provided a hook for the defense to challenge the witnesses. 518 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:32,640 "You've said this not because it's true, but because you're being paid 519 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:37,600 to make it as newsworthy as possible." 520 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,360 And so, I had everybody researched for deals with the press, everybody. 521 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,840 Including the appropriate adult, Janet Leach. 522 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:59,400 As far as the prosecution were concerned, Janet Leach was going to save the case. 523 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,480 She hadn't entered into any agreement for her story, 524 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,360 and she was a completely clean skin, 525 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,880 so they felt very confident calling her as a witness. 526 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,360 Fred took a liking to Janet, 527 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:16,120 whereby he then confided in her things that he didn't tell the police, 528 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,360 and as a result, she becomes probably the star witness, 529 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,880 probably the biggest witness for the prosecution. 530 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,880 He told me at the beginning about the pact that they'd made 531 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,720 that he was going to take the brunt of it all, 532 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,440 and that it was worth it. 533 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,840 He was clearing up a lot of Rose's mistakes, 534 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,640 "little mistakes," she used to call them. 535 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,400 Rose was involved right from the onset. 536 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:48,600 It was time to tell the truth. 537 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,680 I felt, and I think the whole court felt, "This is the truth." 538 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,640 "Of course Rose is involved, and finally somebody is saying it." 539 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,640 That evidence, for me, was very powerful, and I'm sure it was for the jury. 540 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,120 Our approach was to ask a witness whether they had been paid, 541 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:14,600 and she denied vehemently that she had been paid for her story. 542 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,400 As far as that case was concerned, 543 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,240 you couldn't imagine things could become more extraordinary, 544 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:22,480 um, but they did. 545 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,200 The trial of Rosemary West has gripped the courtroom on so many occasions. 546 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,760 Today, on the 24th and final day of evidence, 547 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,160 another revelation which will dominate tomorrow's headlines. 548 00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:39,400 Asked whether she'd told the truth last week 549 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,120 about her dealings with the media, 550 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,600 Mrs. Leach paused before saying no. 551 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,720 She had sold her story to my newspaper group, 552 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,120 and this emerges during her evidence. 553 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,360 She has a kind of breakdown. She collapses. 554 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,040 Everyone is shocked. 555 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,440 Brian Leveson is shocked. John Bennett almost has a heart attack. 556 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,040 This is really a body blow to the prosecution. 557 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,560 The trial has to be stopped. 558 00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,600 Three days pass. A weekend passes. 559 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,960 Finally, we're told the trial is going to resume. 560 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,640 She was brought back in a wheelchair, 561 00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:25,120 but in effect, she was damaged goods as far as the prosecution were concerned. 562 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,840 I was getting a lot of flashbacks and having panic attacks. 563 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:35,520 It was just all too much. 564 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,720 I felt that I was doing a duty, 565 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,360 but I was totally out of my depth. 566 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,160 Suddenly it's over, 567 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,640 and as I listened to the prosecution case, 568 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,680 by the end of it I was wondering, where was the evidence? 569 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,120 Where's the evidence this woman killed anybody? I haven't heard it. 570 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,880 She hasn't confessed. There's no forensic evidence. 571 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,400 There's no fingerprints. There's no murder weapon. 572 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,320 The outcome of this trial was far from a foregone conclusion. 573 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,560 It never gets any easier waiting for a jury… 574 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,040 but it's a very stressful time 575 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,760 because you want to do your best for your client, 576 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,320 and that means a not guilty verdict. 577 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,280 You're thinking, "Is there some point I've missed?" 578 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,000 "What are the jury thinking about?" You don't know. 579 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:42,520 Because it was by no means a given that Rosemary West would be convicted. 580 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,040 I think Rose… 581 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,760 I think she was confident about how things were gonna go. 582 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,200 Anything could happen. 583 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,720 I wouldn't have been surprised if she walked free. 584 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,240 And then, of course, you have this Tannoy system in the court. 585 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,520 "Everyone attending court number three, please return to court." 586 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,480 And you all pile back into court, and yeah, they've got a verdict. 587 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,640 Rosemary West has been convicted of 588 00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:25,080 ten of the most horrific murders in British criminal history. 589 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,640 Mr. Justice Mantell didn't waste his breath on a long speech. 590 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:33,920 "Rosemary Pauline West," he said, "on each of the ten counts of murder 591 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,840 on which you have been unanimously convicted by the jury, 592 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,560 the sentence is one of life imprisonment." 593 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,400 He added, "If attention is paid to what I think, 594 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,400 you will never be released." 595 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,640 He then ordered the prison officers to take her down. 596 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,400 I remember John said to us, "Don't show any emotion." 597 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,520 We sat there stony faced. 598 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,360 What was happening inside was, I think, a degree of relief. 599 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,320 I was pleased mostly for the victims, for the families. 600 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:13,960 And the families. 601 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:20,040 No one can appreciate the pain and suffering they have been through 602 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,760 to learn about the terrible circumstances of this case 603 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,080 and the questions that it raises, 604 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:32,000 some of which, perhaps, will always remain unanswered. 605 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,320 In a black dress with white sleeves, she was led into prison 606 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,640 knowing she'll spend the rest of her life behind bars. 607 00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:43,480 The woman who'd insisted she knew nothing about the bodies buried beneath her house 608 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,560 joins the ranks of Britain's biggest serial killers. 609 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,920 All the different families were there, 610 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,640 and Stephen was there as well. 611 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:09,320 I introduced myself and gave him a hug. 612 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,480 He was very shy. 613 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,280 He just said to me, "I'm really sorry about your sister." 614 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,040 I said, "It's not you to be sorry for, is it?" 615 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,680 I said, "But we've got to remember we're all in this together." 616 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,720 He said, "Thank you." 617 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,000 She's been found guilty, he's dead, it's over. 618 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,560 I can get on with my life, and we can move on. 619 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,520 But it doesn't happen like that. 620 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:47,320 I wish it did. 621 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,520 I think about the last time I'd spoke to her. 622 00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,800 She said to me, "I'll always be here for you." 623 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,960 "No matter what or no matter when." 624 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,720 "Just like you are for me." 625 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:15,120 This is why I say to my children, every single time I say goodnight or goodbye, 626 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,480 I always say, "I love you," because you never know when's the last time. 627 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,640 I did lock it away in a box in my head like I do with lots of things, 628 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,960 so I've never really worked through it. 629 00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:40,680 This, what I'm doing now, I think it's for Alison, mostly for Alison, 630 00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:46,440 but also for me so that I can have a bit of closure, 631 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,560 because I don't have that at the moment. 632 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:04,000 Because of what's happened, I've had to face myself deep inside. 633 00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:13,880 The whole process is about healing, it's about becoming whole, 634 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:20,760 it's about finding a way of living which brings something good out of it. 635 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:29,760 Everyone involved in this atrocious crime, 636 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,000 everyone is connected. 637 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,960 I did keep one card. 638 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:50,000 One card from Marian, which was sent to me when we were saying our goodbyes. 639 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,240 "To dear Russell, 640 00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:00,920 thank you again for all your good humor and sensitivity. Are you blushing yet?" 641 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:10,640 "Your kindness made a big difference to the traumatic agony of it all." 642 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,000 "For the better, of course." 643 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:18,640 "Love from Marian." 644 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,280 In a way, she helped me just as much as I hope I helped her. 645 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,600 The shadow of being in the police stays with you for a long time, 646 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:44,040 but I started to realize that there is good out there. 647 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,040 To see it and to feel it and to be part of it, 648 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,560 that's what I want to do.