1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,959 ["Hearts Break and People Change" by Victor Ray plays] 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,440 [woman] Ooh, this is nice. 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,360 It's giving queen for a queen. 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,960 [laughs] 5 00:00:17,919 --> 00:00:20,080 [chuckles] Let's get it started, man. 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,439 ♪ You was always a liar ♪ 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,920 ♪ I got the truth whenever ♪ 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,000 ♪ Whenever you'd decide ♪ 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,200 We've been together for five years. 10 00:00:30,279 --> 00:00:32,199 It's been the nearest thing to heaven. 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,320 When I met Kelvin, he just ticked all the boxes. 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,720 After the first date, I felt this girl was the one for me. 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,800 [upbeat music playing] 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,440 I think trust is a big issue. 15 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:45,760 I feel unheard. 16 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,960 I want her to… to be frank with me. 17 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,640 We need to work on our loyalty. 18 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,400 ♪ Hearts break and people change ♪ 19 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,000 ♪ I'm startin' to embrace it ♪ 20 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,760 My name's Karen Doherty. I'm a couple therapist. 21 00:00:59,839 --> 00:01:02,199 I've been working in the field for over 20 years. 22 00:01:02,279 --> 00:01:03,680 Sit yourselves down. 23 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,200 You thought you had a really open relationship with no secrets. 24 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,840 That's not been the reality. 25 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,440 Do you even find me attractive? 26 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:13,560 I do think your mum is a bit jealous. 27 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,479 ♪ Hearts break and people change I'm startin' to embrace it… ♪ 28 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,360 Therapy can be confrontational. 29 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,360 Why have you allowed me, all this time, 30 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,479 to make me think this was a promise ring to marriage? 31 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:24,399 And it can be emotional. 32 00:01:24,479 --> 00:01:25,399 [woman] It's not okay. 33 00:01:25,479 --> 00:01:27,119 I don't wanna have kids right now, Carmen. 34 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,440 I can't. I can't. 35 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:31,080 But it's always real. 36 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,880 I don't care about this anymore. 37 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:34,160 -I'm actually tired. -You see? 38 00:01:34,759 --> 00:01:36,920 -Like, why is she so irritated? -She's hurt. 39 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:40,399 There is some kind of boundary 40 00:01:40,479 --> 00:01:42,960 that's being crossed, and I'm not okay with that. 41 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,360 It's about the lie. 42 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,520 -The betrayal of trust. -Absolutely. 43 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:47,960 ♪ Hearts break and people change ♪ 44 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,720 If I did everything that you did, would you stay with me? 45 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,759 Why are you two even together? 46 00:01:59,839 --> 00:02:01,839 [song ends] 47 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,399 ["My Lover" by Jack Hudson, Tim Philpott & Isla Wolfe plays] 48 00:02:05,479 --> 00:02:07,759 ♪ Tell me, are you gonna be my lover ♪ 49 00:02:07,839 --> 00:02:10,960 ♪ Or do you wanna keep this steady? ♪ 50 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:13,239 ♪ I wanna be your number one ♪ 51 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,920 ♪ But I just wanna see you're ready ♪ 52 00:02:16,519 --> 00:02:18,239 ♪ So please don't take your time ♪ 53 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:23,680 ♪ 'Cause I just wanna see you're ready ♪ 54 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,799 ♪ Overcontemplating too long We both got… ♪ 55 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,840 I'm not the type of guy that's usually, like, lovestruck. 56 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:34,120 But when I saw her, I was just kind of thinking, "Damn." 57 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,799 Like, "Feck, she looks bad," like… 58 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,600 I think the first thing that made me fall in love was the looks. 59 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,160 I can't lie, he's eye candy. Like, mm… chef's kiss. 60 00:02:44,239 --> 00:02:45,080 [chuckles] 61 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:47,679 ♪ Use your words… ♪ 62 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,120 Me and Daisy, we've been together for three-plus years now. 63 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:52,840 The start of the relationship was great. 64 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:56,080 You know, butterfly stage. Everything was perfect. 65 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,440 I started to realize, like, 66 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:00,959 I love her, man. 67 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,480 ♪ Tell me, are you gonna be my lover or… ♪ 68 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,400 It's always been my dream to have a happy family, so I love being a mother. 69 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,000 [Jay] My family is everything to me, man. 70 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,560 But with Daisy, when things are good, they're really good. 71 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:17,280 When it's bad, it's the pits of hell. 72 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,200 [funky music plays] 73 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,399 ♪ I know you heard so many times That you're beautiful ♪ 74 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,320 [Daisy] It was a mutual decision for us to come to therapy. 75 00:03:26,399 --> 00:03:28,320 We wanna take our relationship to the next step. 76 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,880 [Jay] The best outcome from this 77 00:03:31,959 --> 00:03:36,480 would be for our communication to improve a lot. 78 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,280 Send Jay and Daisy up, please. 79 00:03:40,359 --> 00:03:43,239 Joseph needs to deeply work on himself. 80 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,119 He is not somebody that can be criticized. 81 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Criticism to him is hate. "You're just hating on me." 82 00:03:48,399 --> 00:03:52,280 I can't be with somebody that I feel, like, likes to argue a lot. 83 00:03:52,359 --> 00:03:54,959 I have to think, how is this gonna affect my daughter? 84 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,320 I mean, she's our priority. 85 00:03:57,399 --> 00:03:59,079 -[Karen] Hello. -[Jay] Hello. 86 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,000 Come on in. 87 00:04:00,079 --> 00:04:05,040 [Daisy] Unless Joseph understands what it is to be a family man, 88 00:04:05,119 --> 00:04:08,239 I don't really see this going any further, to be honest. 89 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:09,760 [music ends] 90 00:04:09,839 --> 00:04:14,519 [clock ticking] 91 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,440 -[Jay] How are you? -I'm good, thank you. 92 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:18,599 -You all right? Okay. -Yeah. 93 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,399 How long have you two been together? 94 00:04:20,479 --> 00:04:22,120 -Three years, counting. -Yeah. 95 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,200 Children? 96 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:24,320 -One. -Yeah, one. 97 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,800 -And how old? -She turned one yesterday. 98 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,680 -Yeah, literally. -[Karen] Congratulations. 99 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:29,880 [Jay and Daisy] Thank you. 100 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,280 Okay, so why here, why now? 101 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,520 The "why now," 'cause if we don't, 102 00:04:36,599 --> 00:04:38,599 we're gonna end up not being together. [laughs] 103 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,400 -Yeah. [clears throat] -Um… But the "why we're here…" 104 00:04:41,479 --> 00:04:44,560 [clicks tongue] …I would say a lot has happened. 105 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,120 Obviously, it's our first time being parents. 106 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,039 And I feel like I'm just really struggling to forgive him 107 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,520 for his lack of support when I first gave birth. 108 00:04:54,599 --> 00:04:57,039 -Were you there at the birth? -I was there. 109 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,880 -Okay. -Ooh, I mean, as you should be. 110 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:02,800 -[laughs] -This… This is what I don't understand. 111 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,360 I did do the best that I could, 112 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,160 and I did what pretty much every dad should be doing-- 113 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,560 -But your best wasn't enough. -How wasn't it enough? 114 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,080 -That's the point. -It was enough. 115 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,200 How wasn't it? Come on, tell me. How wasn't it? 116 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:16,039 Um, literally, the day after I gave birth… 117 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,360 -Can I have your hand, please? -Why? 118 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,080 Can I just have your hand? 119 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:26,120 The day after I gave birth, he went to get this lovely tattoo. 120 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,640 Anybody who's had kids, you can probably imagine, like, 121 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,680 the day after you give birth, you feel like you've been beaten up. 122 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,640 And he thought popping out for a few hours to get a tattoo was acceptable. 123 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,680 Even if I hated somebody, I wouldn't be brave enough to do that. 124 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,919 -That is a stretch, man. -Anyways, continue. 125 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,960 You're at the hospital, they're helping you, taking care of you-- 126 00:05:45,039 --> 00:05:47,120 What makes you think that? 'Cause that's annoying. 127 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,479 -Yes, you do have to lift a finger. -This is what she does. 128 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,800 -Just 'cause there's midwives-- -Please stop interrupting. 129 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,880 You get bare vexed when I interrupt you. Answer this one question. 130 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,680 What did I miss out within those four hours that I was gone? 131 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,160 Any… any… any milestone, anything major? 132 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,000 You missed out on an opportunity-- 133 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,359 -To? -To make me feel supported. 134 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,359 I didn't support you throughout the whole night, 135 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,640 where I didn't sleep, where you were sleeping, having fun? 136 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,120 -Sleeping, having fun? -[Jay] Yeah. 137 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,200 -You were resting. -Bro, I just pushed her out of my front. 138 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:16,080 -Yes, I understand. Yeah, it's a big-- -[laughs] What do you mean? 139 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,919 Me sleeping is not me having fun. 140 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,520 [Karen] Come on, what's the theme here? 141 00:06:19,599 --> 00:06:21,640 You just don't feel like you're supported enough. 142 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,120 Yeah. 143 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,520 I feel like this guy's done me so dirty. 144 00:06:25,599 --> 00:06:27,120 -[scoffs] -[Daisy] Honestly, like… 145 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,640 -Bruv… -Jay, let me just hear. 146 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,760 -That is bullshit though. -Let me… 147 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:32,520 That's how… That's how Daisy feels. 148 00:06:32,599 --> 00:06:35,880 -But a feeling is not fact though. -It still needs to be heard. 149 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,720 Feelings are what brought you here in the first place. You love each other. 150 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,000 So that's how Daisy feels. 151 00:06:42,799 --> 00:06:46,599 Coming to the present. Is this resentment still live on a daily basis? 152 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:47,599 [Jay] 100%. 153 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,200 It's there because the response is a lack of understanding. 154 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:53,840 That was wrong. Period, point blank. 155 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:55,400 [Karen] What about you? 156 00:06:55,479 --> 00:06:59,599 Whenever it comes to me doing anything for myself, she brands it as selfish. 157 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,799 I didn't have a baby. I didn't go through anything physically. 158 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,200 But you did have a baby. 159 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:04,560 -[Jay] Yeah. When I-- -Hold on. 160 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,760 This baby, you did agree to have it together? 161 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,080 -My daughter wasn't planned. -[Karen] Okay. 162 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,880 Naturally, if something's not planned, there's contemplation. 163 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,359 Like, he was quite adamant that he wasn't ready. 164 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:21,719 And I also wasn't ready. 165 00:07:21,799 --> 00:07:25,159 But then at some point, it wasn't about me being ready or not. 166 00:07:25,239 --> 00:07:28,760 It was just a matter of my guilty conscience. 167 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,120 -Okay. -So that's the situation. 168 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,560 [contemplative music plays] 169 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,320 [Daisy] During the process of pregnancy, 170 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,479 as much as I was trying not to become attached, 171 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,680 I feel like I just couldn't help but to become attached to her. 172 00:07:46,159 --> 00:07:47,599 Um… [clicks tongue] 173 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,320 I just didn't have the heart to… 174 00:07:51,919 --> 00:07:52,880 To basically… 175 00:07:53,479 --> 00:07:55,320 [scoffs, tsks] 176 00:07:56,159 --> 00:07:57,960 Sorry. [sobs] 177 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,359 I didn't think I was gonna cry. I thought I was a soldier. [laughs] 178 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,400 Um… [breathes deeply] 179 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,159 [exhales sharply] 180 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,760 [contemplative music ends] 181 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,080 [Jay] We were broken up. 182 00:08:18,159 --> 00:08:21,000 Daisy calls me out of nowhere, 183 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,799 and she just basically breaks the news to me on the phone, 184 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,320 tells me she's pregnant. 185 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,320 And I didn't really know what to say or do, 186 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:28,960 'cause for me, it was just like 187 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,360 this timing is just kind of crazy. I was already moving on with my life. 188 00:08:34,439 --> 00:08:37,000 -I was trying to do my own-- -You were out of the relationship? 189 00:08:37,079 --> 00:08:39,640 -Yeah. I was trying to do my own thing. -Is that what you mean? 190 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,799 And I just feel like she didn't want me to do that. 191 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:49,680 So you think that I decided to have our daughter to keep you here? 192 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:50,600 No. That's-- 193 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:52,680 If that's the case, you can s-out right now. 194 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,480 That's not-- What you talking about? 195 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:57,800 -I didn't say that. Did I say that? -Let me make that clear. That'll annoy me. 196 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,079 It could've been heard like that, but I don't think that's what you mean. 197 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,560 Exactly. For me, it just felt quite convenient. 198 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:09,120 But what is convenient about raising a child with a man you don't like? 199 00:09:10,079 --> 00:09:11,920 What's convenient about that? 200 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,920 Can I just come in here? You were both very confused. 201 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,800 -Yeah. -[Karen] An unplanned pregnancy. 202 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,400 Not knowing what to do with it. 203 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,800 I'm happy about it now, but it was about how we got there. 204 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:26,880 It's not like you forced me, but 205 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:29,680 your actions and how you went about things, 206 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,600 it felt like I was put in a box. 207 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:34,280 Hold on. Hold on. Why do you think she did that? 208 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,400 -Hurt? Rejected? -Yeah. She was hurt. 209 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,720 -Probably. Maybe. -Scared? 210 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,680 Any of that resonate with you? 211 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:43,280 Basically. 212 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,920 Yeah. How are you feeling hearing all of this? 213 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,079 I wanna keep my family together. I wanna be with Daisy. 214 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,920 I love her, if I'm being honest, and I love my family. 215 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,760 -Everything about them. -Don't sweeten me up. 216 00:09:53,839 --> 00:09:57,199 -Do you not feel loved by him? -The thing is, I actually do. And this-- 217 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,160 This is why I'm just so confused in these situations, 218 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,040 because he will be fantastic, 219 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,160 and then when we talk, I'll hear things that I'm so shocked by. 220 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,480 Like, I didn't know that you felt like that. 221 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:11,880 Because you never listen to when I'm speaking to you. 222 00:10:11,959 --> 00:10:14,760 Whenever I speak to her, she doesn't wanna hear it. 223 00:10:14,839 --> 00:10:16,120 I just wanna ask you a question. 224 00:10:16,199 --> 00:10:19,400 If you didn't have a baby between you, 225 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:20,839 would you be together? 226 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,360 [clock ticking] 227 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:27,680 [exhales] 228 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:32,959 Yes. 229 00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:35,199 Yeah. 230 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,720 I feel like, to be honest, having a child makes things harder. 231 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,079 -I feel like… -[Karen] Yes. 232 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,440 …there will be a lot less issues and less serious issues to address. 233 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:51,000 So to be honest, I feel like we would've eventually put our differences aside. 234 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:52,360 Do you agree? 235 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,839 Yeah, I do think we would be together. 236 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,280 But, like, it's about how you would've gone about the situation. 237 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,160 But now you're in this situation, 238 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,719 you're still harking back to how you got here. 239 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:05,959 Can you hear that? 240 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:07,839 -Yeah. -[Karen] But you're here. 241 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,480 -[Jay] Yeah. -And you want to be. 242 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:12,839 I love my daughter. Like, I wanna be around them. 243 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,160 And the thought of potentially losing them is scary. 244 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,600 I don't want that to happen. 245 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:22,440 But every single time when there's a major decision that you don't like, 246 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,880 you don't seem to ever be open to speaking about it. 247 00:11:25,959 --> 00:11:27,360 And, for me, that's not nice, 248 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,040 because I feel like you know I've got a soft heart, 249 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,320 and you know that I've got a soft spot for you, 250 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,839 I've got a soft spot for my family. 251 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,480 Can I come in here? Did you hear what he said? 252 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,320 -Yeah. -"I've got a soft spot." [chuckles] 253 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,640 -Did you hear that? -Yeah. 254 00:11:40,719 --> 00:11:42,400 But he just doesn't feel heard. 255 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,440 Okay. 256 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,160 Okay, guys, you're moving in very polarized positions. 257 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,320 We're gonna meet again. 258 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,079 I want you to think about actually, what would be good? 259 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,400 I feel like Daisy just needs to learn how to forgive. 260 00:11:54,959 --> 00:11:56,360 [Karen] What do you think? 261 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,719 I feel like, at a certain point, you need to 262 00:12:00,959 --> 00:12:04,719 just believe that I'm not out to get you. 263 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,560 Some of the things you spoke about, as I said, we've never spoken about. 264 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:10,640 -Yes, we have. -No, no. 265 00:12:10,719 --> 00:12:13,280 I mean, in this context, we've never spoken about. 266 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,160 Think about the things that have been left out 267 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,560 and that you want to voice between now and the next session. 268 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,199 Yeah. 269 00:12:20,839 --> 00:12:23,400 Thank you both. See you next session. Thank you. 270 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,040 ♪ I don't wanna play around anymore ♪ 271 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,640 ♪ I don't wanna take it I'll leave it at my door ♪ 272 00:12:32,719 --> 00:12:36,320 [Karen] Sometimes, people say having a child is a fix for a relationship, 273 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,880 it makes things better. That's just not my experience. 274 00:12:39,959 --> 00:12:42,800 It's another dynamic in an already strained dynamic. 275 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,240 Jay and Daisy haven't had time to build trust between themselves, 276 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,000 and then this baby has caused even more insecurity. 277 00:12:50,079 --> 00:12:53,480 And before you can trust another, one has to trust oneself. 278 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:55,560 [song ends] 279 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,480 ♪ You're the only option And trust I got some options ♪ 280 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,040 -♪ A lot of girls look my way ♪ -♪ They look my way ♪ 281 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,719 ♪ But whenever you call And whenever you need ♪ 282 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:06,839 ♪ You know I'll be on my way ♪ 283 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,959 ♪ So when I pull up I only come to see my baby ♪ 284 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,199 ♪ It ain't ever too late It's my statement ♪ 285 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,599 ♪ I'm saying, it don't matter The time I'll wait for you ♪ 286 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:21,560 ♪ Girl, so I choose you ♪ 287 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,360 ♪ And I choose you ♪ 288 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,120 [song ends] 289 00:13:27,199 --> 00:13:30,040 [man] Oh, I love this color. 290 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:31,839 I love sofas like this. 291 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:35,920 I love this thing. It's nice. We need one of those at home. 292 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,160 [upbeat pop music plays] 293 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:38,240 ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah… ♪ 294 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,599 Maria is one of a kind. She has a very, very good heart. 295 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:45,040 She's the best person I've ever met. I've met a lot of people. 296 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,360 She's the best person I've ever met. [chuckles] 297 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,320 I see the vibes. I see the vibes. 298 00:13:51,599 --> 00:13:53,199 I see it. [chuckles] 299 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,000 Viktor is a very, very nice man. 300 00:13:57,079 --> 00:14:00,680 He's always been that kind of, like, Prince Charming I've always wanted. 301 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,040 I'd love to be his wife. 302 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,800 [inhales] Does that not sound good? 303 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,760 "Oh, hi, guys. I'm Viktor's wife." 304 00:14:06,839 --> 00:14:09,800 ♪ I just wanna breathe the same air The same air… ♪ 305 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,360 I like to describe our relationship as fairy-tale love, 306 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,120 you know, like out of the movies. 307 00:14:16,199 --> 00:14:18,320 I was born and raised in Bulgaria, 308 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,920 and ever since I was a young child, I was a bit misunderstood. 309 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,000 I didn't really have anyone in my corner growing up 310 00:14:25,079 --> 00:14:27,079 or even friendship groups. 311 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,400 And now this is just like everything I've wished for, basically. 312 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,400 [Maria] I didn't think I could love someone the way I love him, 313 00:14:33,479 --> 00:14:35,959 but Viktor's my top dog, bestie. 314 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,920 He's my bro through and through. Ride or die. [laughs] 315 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,160 ♪ Yeah, say yeah, say yeah ♪ 316 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,760 We're madly in love with each other, but we're also business partners. 317 00:14:46,839 --> 00:14:47,880 We have a couples channel. 318 00:14:47,959 --> 00:14:50,439 [Maria] We're on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, you name it. 319 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,400 -On every single social media platform. -We work extremely hard. 320 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,160 We're very much two peas in a pod, and that pod cannot be broken. 321 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,560 ♪ Oh, what are you feeling? ♪ 322 00:15:02,479 --> 00:15:04,719 ♪ 'Cause I'm down on my knees ♪ 323 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,680 -[producer] Tell me about the M-word. -Oh… 324 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,120 [producer] Why aren't you married? 325 00:15:08,199 --> 00:15:09,319 Oh God. 326 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,479 Honestly, I don't know, and that's what brings me here. 327 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,079 We've been together for seven years. Why doesn't he wanna get married to me? 328 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:16,640 Um… 329 00:15:16,719 --> 00:15:17,880 There's been a couple of years 330 00:15:17,959 --> 00:15:21,319 of uncomfortable conversations and grilling. 331 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,040 "When are you thinking about, like, us getting married?" 332 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:25,319 It's so annoying. 333 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,000 ♪ Know that we got issues… ♪ 334 00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:30,160 [Viktor] I'm so lucky to have her, to have met her, 335 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,920 but I want us to live life a little bit more 336 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,839 before we start thinking about marriage and kids and all these stuff. 337 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,400 ♪ I make you feel ♪ 338 00:15:38,479 --> 00:15:41,040 ♪ Make you feel so right ♪ 339 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,640 ♪ Ah, ah, ah, ah ♪ 340 00:15:42,719 --> 00:15:45,479 [Karen] It's Maria and Viktor. 341 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:46,439 Yes. Yes. 342 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,040 -[Karen] Okay. -Thank you for having us. 343 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,680 So, how long have you two been together? 344 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,880 -About seven years now. -Yeah. 345 00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:56,359 And, yeah, been an amazing seven years. 346 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,719 Some of the best times of my life personally, yeah. 347 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,520 So, what brings you to therapy today? 348 00:16:02,599 --> 00:16:07,719 Um, so I was actually the one that suggested that Viktor and I go to therapy, 349 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,920 simply because, you know, we've been in a relationship for so long, 350 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,560 and it feels like Viktor has some sort of commitment issue. 351 00:16:16,199 --> 00:16:18,280 Maybe there's something in his mind that's blocking him 352 00:16:18,359 --> 00:16:21,040 that maybe you can help us. I really feel like we need the help. 353 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,400 Oh, are you under duress? Have you been dragged here? 354 00:16:23,479 --> 00:16:25,400 So I'm definitely not here against my will. 355 00:16:25,479 --> 00:16:27,560 He's very skeptical about therapy, actually. 356 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,959 -[Viktor] I'm not-- -He doesn't believe in therapy. 357 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,520 -He doesn't think it will help. -[Viktor] That's not true. 358 00:16:32,599 --> 00:16:36,120 I just don't think it's for everyone, unless you let it help you. 359 00:16:36,199 --> 00:16:38,359 Let's see how open you are to letting it help you. 360 00:16:38,439 --> 00:16:40,640 -Exactly. -Let's see. [chuckles] 361 00:16:40,719 --> 00:16:43,199 I wanna see what the fuss is all about. Let's see. What you got? 362 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,319 [Karen] Okay, so are you married? 363 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,319 Uh, no, actually. 364 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,359 That's why we're here, why I brought him to therapy. 365 00:16:49,439 --> 00:16:51,719 -Ah. -I don't have a commitment issue. 366 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,400 I'm a very committed guy to everything I put my mind to. 367 00:16:54,479 --> 00:16:57,640 -Yeah. -It's just I believe that I feel happy. 368 00:16:57,719 --> 00:16:58,880 I think we are happy. 369 00:16:59,599 --> 00:17:00,800 I'm deeply in love. 370 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,160 And I don't think that even if I get married tomorrow, 371 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,440 like, I'll give more than what I'm giving right now. 372 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,280 So let's have a think about it. What does marriage mean for you? 373 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,960 Why… Why do you want to get married? 374 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,159 Getting married is my dream. I've always wanted to. I've seen-- 375 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,240 But what does it mean? 376 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,520 Well, it means to me, like, the person that you're with 377 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,119 loves you so much that they're willing to commit to you. 378 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,040 [Karen] Yes. 379 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,600 Being able to, when we're signing down a next of kin, 380 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,520 or when I'm filling out a form, to have Mrs. instead of Miss. 381 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,080 -Really? -I don't know. 382 00:17:34,159 --> 00:17:36,280 Maybe it's something that's been embedded in me 383 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,240 since I was, like, young and stuff like that. 384 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,640 But I feel like it's the highest level of love. That's what I feel it is. 385 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,200 Highest level of love and a total commitment. 386 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:45,600 -Yeah. -[Karen] Okay. 387 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,480 Come in there, Viktor. What are you thinking? 388 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,320 Because there's a lot going on on your face. 389 00:17:49,399 --> 00:17:51,480 So, what's… what's going through the… 390 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,840 Where do I even start from? Um… 391 00:17:53,919 --> 00:17:56,760 A marriage, for me, is just an option. It's not something I need to do. 392 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,120 We live in different times now. 393 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,840 I don't need to get married to be accepted by society. 394 00:17:59,919 --> 00:18:02,600 I don't need to have children to be accepted by society. 395 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,800 I… I hear you. Except… 396 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:05,960 Yeah? 397 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,760 …you're in a committed relationship. 398 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:08,919 Yeah. 399 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,720 And you're completely excluding 400 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,520 the preferences, needs, wants, desires of your partner. 401 00:18:16,919 --> 00:18:20,320 Do you feel that he doesn't really take it seriously, the relationship? 402 00:18:20,399 --> 00:18:24,720 Well, in 2020, I received a promise ring from Viktor. 403 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:25,919 What's that? 404 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,600 I just bought her a ring. 405 00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:29,919 No, when he gave-- He gave it to me on my birthday 406 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,440 and said, "This is my promise ring to you, Maria." 407 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,679 -I did not say that. I did not say that. -He did. 408 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:35,800 Promise of what? 409 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,440 -Me? You? -Me? I took it as a promise of marriage. 410 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,640 -Is this the ring you're wearing? -[Maria] I got two, yeah. I've got two on. 411 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,600 'Cause he gave me another one in 2024, on my birthday, again. 412 00:18:45,679 --> 00:18:49,480 I bought her a ring for her birthday because I thought she'll love it. 413 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,200 Why have you allowed me, all this time, 414 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,520 to make me think this was a promise ring to marriage? 415 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:54,679 It makes you happy. 416 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,440 And that's the most important thing, for you to feel happy. 417 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,159 So you're misleading me. You're leading me on. 418 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,159 Honestly, I believe that these promise rings are most likely shut-up rings. 419 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,040 At this point, like, it's just empty promises. 420 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,280 When did you decide that you were so anti-marriage? 421 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:14,560 [Viktor scoffs] 422 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,080 [exhales] I'm not anti-marriage. 423 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,360 I do things for a reason. I don't see a reason to get married. 424 00:19:27,399 --> 00:19:31,000 -No reason to get married? Okay. -Yeah. Personally, for me-- 425 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,840 How does that land with you, "No reason to get married"? 426 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,560 That shit hurt my feelings, bro. 427 00:19:40,919 --> 00:19:42,520 [Karen] What did you say? 428 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,240 I said it hurt my feelings. Him saying that there's no reason. 429 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,320 [sad music plays] 430 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,880 Because we're already happy, man. 431 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,600 It doesn't feel like it's 100% true, here and now. 432 00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:01,760 That's what I'm trying to say, the reasoning behind it. 433 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,880 Is it because it's actually going to change something between us? 434 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,200 "There's no reason." You don't feel there's a reason to get married. 435 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,520 That means I'm not… I'm not a big enough reason 436 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:11,840 for you to want to get married. 437 00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:13,080 Now, that's crazy. 438 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:15,720 Can I take a break? 439 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,440 God. I'm sorry. 440 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,760 This guy is so fricking… 441 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,159 [Viktor] Yep. 442 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,640 [Karen] How does that feel? 443 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,120 I'm kind of used to it, honestly, Karen. That-- That's my life. 444 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,520 I've always been misunderstood for being "different," let's call it. 445 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,880 I'm accepting everyone around me the way they are, 446 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,600 but no one's accepting me for who I am. 447 00:20:45,679 --> 00:20:47,040 People live in the gray. 448 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,120 Maybe you're a bit black and white about that, 449 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,960 and maybe Maria's just a little bit more gray. 450 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,800 [Viktor] When we have a disagreement about something, 451 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,240 that's when I feel a bit disconnected from her. 452 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,880 Sometimes I realize I'm a bit blunt and straight to the point, 453 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,360 but I cannot reprogram myself. 454 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,280 I'm just a different type of guy. It's not for everyone. 455 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,280 [birds chirping] 456 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:15,440 I'm back. 457 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,720 -Hello. -[Viktor] You okay? 458 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:17,960 -[Maria] Mm-hmm. -You good? 459 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,280 How are you feeling? 460 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,080 I sort of need to know what's going on. 461 00:21:23,159 --> 00:21:24,480 -I'm okay. -[Karen] You okay? 462 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,000 -[Viktor] Yeah? -Yeah. 463 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,960 [Karen] Do you mind if I dig into that a bit? 464 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,399 He just doesn't wanna get married to me, clearly. 465 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,320 -It doesn't make sense, so… -What's that gonna change for us? 466 00:21:35,399 --> 00:21:38,760 Let's say we're married. How… How's tomorrow gonna look for us? 467 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,880 Are you gonna love me more if we marry? 468 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,919 Are you holding back on some love? Is that what you're trying to say? 469 00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:50,439 What about your family? How do they… How do they respond to… to your couple? 470 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,720 Just set me off again. 471 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,600 -Whose fault is that? It's their fault. -[Karen] You okay? I don't wanna… 472 00:21:54,679 --> 00:21:56,800 -You all right? -Yeah. 473 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,120 It's been tough. 474 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,040 What happened? 475 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:07,399 Last year, I called my mum to say "Happy Mother's Day" to her. 476 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,000 And basically, she didn't realize that she was on loudspeaker, 477 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,520 and Viktor heard everything. 478 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,159 What she said was, 479 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,800 "You're giving yourself to a man that doesn't even want to marry you." 480 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:21,480 [exhales] 481 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,560 [melancholy music plays] 482 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,080 [sniffles] 483 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,600 [sniffles] 484 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,720 And it's tough because I love my family. [sniffles] 485 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:41,600 [exhales] 486 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:43,840 [sniffles] 487 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,280 And I know with Viktor, Viktor's okay with not talking with his family 488 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:54,399 or not being, you know, like, close with his family and stuff. 489 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,800 But I'm a different person. 490 00:22:58,159 --> 00:23:01,360 What about your relationship with Maria's family? 491 00:23:01,439 --> 00:23:02,600 E… [scoffs] 492 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,760 There's not much of that. 493 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,840 Maria's parents have said previously that they do accept me and love me as a son, 494 00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:12,080 but I haven't really seen that. 495 00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:15,320 I'm not really the type of guy that's too much into family. 496 00:23:15,399 --> 00:23:17,960 I just need that one solid person, and that's Maria. 497 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,000 She's perfect. 498 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:21,960 I thought I'd just be loved, 499 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,919 and the fact that their daughter is happy with me 500 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,760 would just be enough for them. 501 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,480 But it's not… But it's under condition. 502 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,679 For them to accept me and really respect me, we have to get married, 503 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,399 we gotta have kids, gotta have the house, all of these stuff. 504 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,240 And if these people do not respect me, it's not gonna work. 505 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,399 [Karen] "These people"? 506 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,320 -Well-- Yeah. Her family. -[Karen] Her family? 507 00:23:43,399 --> 00:23:44,520 How do you feel? 508 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,320 It's a mother looking out for their daughter. 509 00:23:47,919 --> 00:23:51,200 -That's how it seems like to me. -How does that land with you, Viktor? 510 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,040 Her mum's looking out for her in the way that she can. 511 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,760 I totally understand that. 100% understand that, yeah. 512 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,720 I just think they think I'm not worth it, I'm not good enough. That's fine. 513 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,360 It doesn't necessarily say that you're not good enough. 514 00:24:03,439 --> 00:24:05,439 It might not be about you. 515 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:06,960 It's about their system. 516 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:07,919 -Sure, yeah. -Yeah. 517 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,760 Their value system, their familial system. It's not about you. 518 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,159 Yeah. Yeah, we could look at it that way too, so, yeah. 519 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,640 That relationship with your family, you're continually conflicted… 520 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,760 -Yeah. -…between one and the other. 521 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:27,360 It's like I often feel like I have to tell Viktor one thing, 522 00:24:27,439 --> 00:24:28,560 then tell my family another. 523 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,360 [Karen] Another thing. Say more about that. 524 00:24:30,439 --> 00:24:31,560 [Maria] Um… 525 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,439 Viktor, it feels very, very touchy, like, of just giving people money. 526 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:40,600 Even for Christmas. 527 00:24:40,679 --> 00:24:43,240 He finds it weird that for Christmas I give my mum money. 528 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,040 Why don't you just buy her something? 529 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:49,240 Well, you see how you think that I'm still paying off my car? 530 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,760 -Yeah, so she… she purchased a car. -[Karen] Yeah. 531 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,520 But instead of taking a loan and doing the whole interest thing, 532 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,200 her mum purchased the whole amount, 533 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,080 and now she's just sending her some sort of small amount every single month, yeah. 534 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,640 I actually finished paying off my car, like, years ago. 535 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,159 I'm just sending them money. 536 00:25:12,159 --> 00:25:13,360 What do you mean? 537 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,280 So you've just been sending your parents money? 538 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,880 That's serious. Like, really? Like, for years? Really? 539 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,720 That's what we do? And you just didn't tell me? 540 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,840 Being from a Nigerian background, our culture is based around respect. 541 00:25:28,919 --> 00:25:30,040 That's just how it is. 542 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:33,800 And I try to be as selfless as I can towards my parents. 543 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,159 And it's so frustrating 544 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,360 because it's like, it's my culture, suck it up, 545 00:25:37,439 --> 00:25:39,000 live with it, it's not that deep. 546 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,919 You're sending money to your family that does not respect me as a person. 547 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,919 You see how you're contradicting yourself? 548 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,760 And then you expect me to… to marry you. 549 00:25:48,919 --> 00:25:50,640 How's that leaving you feeling? 550 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,800 Like a fool. 551 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,560 -It's not the money though, is it? -It's about the lie. 552 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,280 You're keeping something from me for so… for so long. 553 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,280 -So it's about the betrayal of trust? -Absolutely. 554 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:04,120 Isn't it being torn between the two things that she loves the most, 555 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,840 you and her family? 556 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,760 All it is, is symbolic of this big difference, 557 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,240 this big problem that you as a couple have, 558 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,080 which is your different values. 559 00:26:15,159 --> 00:26:18,159 The way that marriage isn't for you, and it's absolutely… 560 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,240 It's… It's a necessity for you. 561 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,560 So I'm gonna leave you with that, 562 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,600 to think about until the next session. 563 00:26:25,679 --> 00:26:28,480 -Thank you for your time. Appreciate you. -Thank you. 564 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,560 [tense music plays] 565 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,720 [Maria] Babe, sorry. 566 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,240 [Karen] In my experience, people withhold because they are frightened. 567 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,439 They are frightened of not being accepted. 568 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,840 [Viktor] You do realize how serious that is? 569 00:26:45,919 --> 00:26:47,760 -[Maria] Sorry. -[Viktor] Just leave me alone. 570 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,000 ♪ I don't wanna talk about us Boy, you lost my trust ♪ 571 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,760 -Can you get that door for me? -No. 572 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,399 Let's get at it, bruv. Don't even know the half of it. 573 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,960 Everything ain't come out. I've got more shit to say. 574 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,800 I think, to a degree, we all withhold, 575 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,240 but it's why. 576 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,199 ♪ Talk about us, don't call me up ♪ 577 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,760 Maybe we are too ashamed, or we feel guilty. 578 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,240 If you dig deep enough, 579 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,480 you're probably withholding something from your partner. 580 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,919 ♪ You were holding my heart ♪ 581 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,640 ♪ Locking in right from the start ♪ 582 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,000 ♪ Why do you have to pull apart? ♪ 583 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,199 ♪ I want it all back I want it all back, yeah ♪ 584 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,480 ♪ Tell me something How could you? ♪ 585 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,480 ♪ We were all I ever knew ♪ 586 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,560 ♪ How will I ever get through? ♪ 587 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,760 ♪ I want it all back I want it all back, yeah ♪ 588 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:44,480 I've always found therapy a little bit… Does it really help? 589 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,640 I'm very good at talking and articulating myself. 590 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,960 I can be very blunt and very direct. 591 00:27:55,159 --> 00:27:56,760 -What you doing? -Hmm? 592 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,439 [Yasmin] With us being in therapy, 593 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,040 I perhaps need to think about how I can communicate 594 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,120 in a way that will land with Michael, 595 00:28:05,199 --> 00:28:08,480 especially on topics that I know he's sensitive with, especially money. 596 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,120 You're asking too many questions. 597 00:28:10,199 --> 00:28:12,040 -Go away, please. -[Yasmin] All right. 598 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,720 My only concern is that Michael might be dismissive of what happens in therapy. 599 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,760 But at the end of the day, he said that he would give it a chance. 600 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,280 ♪ I don’t wanna keep fighting What I want ♪ 601 00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:28,320 We met through my work manager. 602 00:28:28,399 --> 00:28:29,600 And she was like, 603 00:28:29,679 --> 00:28:32,360 "Let me set you up with this guy. He's gonna be really good for you." 604 00:28:32,439 --> 00:28:36,439 She said, "You seem to fit the mold." And I said, "Okay, what's the mold then?" 605 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,439 She said, "Short, funny, and Nigerian." 606 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,000 [laughs] 607 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,120 ♪ …what I want ♪ 608 00:28:44,679 --> 00:28:46,360 We've been together for five years. 609 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,000 It's been the nearest thing to heaven, I'll call it. 610 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,800 [people cheering] 611 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,240 [Mike] She's very selfless. 612 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,280 She takes her role as a mum very seriously. 613 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,480 Yeah, she's perfect. 614 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,000 The main issue that we're having in our relationship 615 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,760 is Michael's attachment to money. 616 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,639 I think that's where we clash heads. 617 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,720 [melancholy music plays] 618 00:29:15,439 --> 00:29:17,879 [Mike] Growing up was really hard financially. 619 00:29:17,959 --> 00:29:19,840 There was times where there was no hot water, 620 00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:22,439 not having enough money to put £10 on the electric, 621 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,600 so having to use candles overnight. 622 00:29:24,679 --> 00:29:27,879 Stuff that I wouldn't want my children to go through, basically. 623 00:29:27,959 --> 00:29:33,080 After a while, that inner child that was exposed to the lack of money 624 00:29:33,159 --> 00:29:36,399 wanted more and more things, even if I couldn't afford them. 625 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,480 There was a lot of expectations and a lot of pressure 626 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,080 on becoming something or someone. 627 00:29:43,159 --> 00:29:46,199 I just thought, "You know what? I'm gonna keep buying and spending." 628 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,919 The best outcome I think I can get from being here, 629 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,800 I'll be able to actually explain and express how I feel, 630 00:29:53,879 --> 00:29:55,320 hopefully, I say. 631 00:29:55,399 --> 00:29:56,800 [music ends] 632 00:29:56,879 --> 00:29:59,280 [clock ticking] 633 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:00,399 [Karen] Hello, both. 634 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,879 -So how long have you two been together? -Been roughly about five years. 635 00:30:03,959 --> 00:30:05,600 -Five years, yeah. -[Karen] Okay. 636 00:30:05,679 --> 00:30:09,159 -And children? -Yes. We got two. Um… 637 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,320 One together, and then Mike has a… a child from a previous relationship. 638 00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:13,240 [Mike] Yeah. 639 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,439 So tell me, what did you see in each other? 640 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,199 What brought you together? 641 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,360 I think, for me, he was just so open from the beginning 642 00:30:22,439 --> 00:30:24,679 about who he was, 643 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,600 and I think it just allowed us to have so many 644 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,879 important conversations very early on. 645 00:30:29,959 --> 00:30:31,000 Yeah. 646 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,520 And there's never a time where I don't feel safe. 647 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,399 So it was just like why am I gonna waste time with anyone else 648 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,199 if I can see I've got a good thing in front of me? 649 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,000 How do you feel when she says that? 650 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,959 It makes me feel good, I'll be honest with you. 651 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,520 So, what brings you here today? 652 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,360 We're engaged. 653 00:30:50,439 --> 00:30:53,199 We want to get married, we want more children, 654 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,879 we wanna get on the property ladder, 655 00:30:55,959 --> 00:30:59,760 and the financial situation between us 656 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,280 is causing some difficulty in our relationship. 657 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,600 So, do you agree? 658 00:31:06,199 --> 00:31:08,080 [Mike] To a certain extent, yeah. 659 00:31:08,159 --> 00:31:12,760 There are some things I would like to probably express 660 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,879 with someone that can actually allow us to express ourselves. 661 00:31:17,399 --> 00:31:19,360 So can you tell me what you both do? 662 00:31:19,959 --> 00:31:21,120 So I'm a teacher. 663 00:31:21,199 --> 00:31:23,800 -And what about you, Mike? -I'm a business banking manager. 664 00:31:24,439 --> 00:31:27,639 Okay. So in terms of income, 665 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,760 do you earn basically the same, or is there a difference? 666 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,720 Definitely not. 667 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:33,760 She earns twice as much as me. 668 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,439 -Twice as much? -Yeah. 669 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,120 Is that an issue? 670 00:31:37,199 --> 00:31:40,080 My values is the man earns the most. 671 00:31:40,159 --> 00:31:42,040 Not to say that Yasmin's made me feel that way, 672 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,439 but I think it is ingrained in me. 673 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,879 It's ingrained, yeah. It's entrenched in you. 674 00:31:45,959 --> 00:31:48,240 How do you manage it? That must be really difficult for you. 675 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,719 [exhales] It's not easy. Um… 676 00:31:51,639 --> 00:31:53,159 Her earning twice as much as me 677 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,399 sometimes makes me feel like I… not necessarily need to compete, 678 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,360 but I've obviously gone into debt, and I've… [exhales] 679 00:31:59,439 --> 00:32:00,760 It… It is hard for me 680 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,439 because most of my disposable income goes towards debts. 681 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,199 Then that also shifts the dynam… the dynamics 682 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,679 and the bill paying and the rent paying in the house as well. 683 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,520 Yeah, so how does that work out? 684 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:17,320 So, it's so embarrassing to say, but she pays basically 70% of the rent. 685 00:32:17,399 --> 00:32:19,959 And saying that out loud 686 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,800 makes me feel less than, makes me feel a little bit this big, basically. 687 00:32:25,879 --> 00:32:28,840 So do you know how much debt that Mike has at the moment? 688 00:32:28,919 --> 00:32:32,600 I have an idea of how much it is, but I don't-- 689 00:32:32,679 --> 00:32:34,399 So, what's your idea of the debt? 690 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,879 My idea is that it's around 6,000. 691 00:32:37,959 --> 00:32:38,879 [Karen] Okay. 692 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,240 Is Yasmin's idea of the debt accurate? 693 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,159 No. 694 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:48,879 No. 695 00:32:48,959 --> 00:32:51,199 It's basically doubled. 696 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,800 You're not serious? [laughs nervously] 697 00:32:54,879 --> 00:32:56,240 I'm-- Yeah. 698 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,040 How can you wait 'til we come to here to say that? 699 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:03,560 It… [exhales] 700 00:33:03,639 --> 00:33:06,159 I don't like the feeling of, first of all, having debt. 701 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,800 But I've never, ever given you reason 702 00:33:08,879 --> 00:33:12,679 to not be open and honest with me when it comes to those conversations. 703 00:33:13,399 --> 00:33:15,840 There's never been a time where I've judged you on it, 704 00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:17,280 where I've said anything 705 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,840 to make you feel like you can't have that conversation with me. 706 00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:21,959 I'm putting myself in a vulnerable situation 707 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,000 where I'm telling you about my debt, and this is the reaction I'm gonna get. 708 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,879 -Which is why I-- -Don't make it out like that. 709 00:33:26,959 --> 00:33:30,280 It's not like that when we're at home. When we're at home, it's not like that. 710 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,959 It's the fact you've let it come to here. 711 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,040 How can it snowball to that point? 712 00:33:34,639 --> 00:33:38,520 I've always said I don't mind doing X, Y, and Z if it's for us. 713 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,520 But if it's gonna keep snowballing, then it's not for us, is it? 714 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,719 You're not making decisions for us. You're making decisions for you. 715 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,600 -[Mike] Hm. -And that doesn't make sense. 716 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,159 I just don't like being talked to like I'm a child. 717 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,000 I don't talk about my debt because I know I'll get a reaction like this. 718 00:33:55,639 --> 00:33:57,480 This isn't from… This isn't from the debt. 719 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,000 This is from the fact that you've let it snowball. 720 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,159 I've just been… I've had… 721 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,480 I've made bad financial decisions. 722 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,600 If we go food shopping, I will buy for everyone, 723 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,480 and he will go separately and go and buy food for him. 724 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,560 Organic grass-fed meat, organic fruit and veg. 725 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:20,319 I think my thing is consistently, impulsively buying things 726 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,159 that are not necessarily expensive. 727 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,520 -But over time… Yes. -They mount up. 728 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,839 And that's what it is. It's buying… It's buying the takeaways. 729 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,120 Sometimes I'm spending anywhere from £50 to £100 every other day, basically. 730 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,679 It's buying the fragrances I don't need, that are not even the name-brand-- 731 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,480 Yeah, but the way you spend is not normal. 732 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,040 Because you won't just go out and buy one fragrance. 733 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,319 -You will have, like, seven-- -So I'm not normal? 734 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,799 You'll have seven deliveries come. 735 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,920 That's not normal, to go and buy seven fragrances in one go. 736 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,960 I don't like to be told that I'm not normal. 737 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,520 I know it's not… It's not great, is it? It's not ideal. 738 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,400 No one's saying you can't treat yourself. Why do you need to buy seven? 739 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,640 Why can't you just say I want that one and that one, and then when things… 740 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,680 -When I've got more money, then I'll get-- -Because I don't want to. 741 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,880 -[Yasmin] That's how you've ended up here. -Yeah, well… 742 00:35:05,319 --> 00:35:08,680 Having debt is so embarrassing and it's so hard to talk about. 743 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,160 All of that ties into what makes you a man, in my personal opinion. 744 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,720 So you spend the money to sort of treat yourself, to look after yourself. 745 00:35:19,799 --> 00:35:22,440 -[Yasmin] That's exactly it. -Is that ringing true? 746 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,280 Culture plays a massive part in how I think about money as well. 747 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,120 Sometimes trying to show that I can 748 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,799 be the head of the household or the breadwinner 749 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,120 has obviously set me back a bit as well. 750 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,760 There's a real contradiction going on here, isn't there? 751 00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:42,960 This is your culture, but, in a way, Yasmin is setting that aside 752 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,200 and she's willing to accept you on a completely different basis. 753 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,480 I just have a real anxiety, or… insecurity about finances. 754 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,640 And also she hasn't shown me, 755 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:56,400 maybe, um, 756 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,960 when we're together, basically, that she still kind of wants to be here. 757 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,000 If I didn't wanna be here, I wouldn't be here. 758 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,960 [Mike] I do feel like the finances have affected our relationship. 759 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,680 -And she looks for-- -I feel like it's affected you. 760 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,120 And most of what Yasmin has said in this session… 761 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,319 -[Mike] Mm. -…doesn't back that up, Mike. 762 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,200 Now that we're here, and obviously I said I'm gonna try to be open and honest… 763 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,600 [exhales] It's so hard. Um… 764 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,080 This is the biggest thing I've ever kept from Yasmin. 765 00:36:27,799 --> 00:36:30,319 We don't ever keep secrets from each other. 766 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,440 [melancholy music playing] 767 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,839 Remember I told you that I had, like, a… 768 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,000 I had a reshuffle at work. 769 00:36:37,319 --> 00:36:42,200 And they've been moving people around and all the rest of it. 770 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,200 But, um, 771 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,280 I've been made redundant. 772 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:46,720 [dramatic sting] 773 00:36:46,799 --> 00:36:48,120 [inhales deeply] 774 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,880 [Mike] And, um, it's been two months. 775 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,720 It's embarrassing to say, but, literally, I'll dress up like I'm going to work. 776 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,000 We leave the house around the same time. 777 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,799 -[Yasmin sighs] -And then I'll literally circle round, 778 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,040 and as long as she's gone to work, I'll just circle back home. 779 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,200 I just feel completely and utterly blindsided. 780 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,880 He's been living another life, just lying to me. 781 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,640 I can't… I can't even look at you right now. I can't. 782 00:37:28,839 --> 00:37:30,839 ["Watch the World Burn" by Rora Wilde plays] 783 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,960 ♪ Ooh, watch it all burn ♪ 784 00:38:07,799 --> 00:38:13,560 ♪ Ooh, watch it all burn ♪ 785 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,040 ♪ Ooh, burn ♪ 786 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,120 ["Watch the World Burn" ends]