["Hearts Break and People Change" by Victor Ray plays]
[woman] Ooh, this is nice.
It's giving queen for a queen.
[laughs]
[chuckles] Let's get it started, man.
♪ You was always a liar ♪
♪ I got the truth whenever ♪
♪ Whenever you'd decide ♪
We've been together for five years.
It's been the nearest thing to heaven.
When I met Kelvin, he just ticked all the boxes.
After the first date, I felt this girl was the one for me.
[upbeat music playing]
I think trust is a big issue.
I feel unheard.
I want her to… to be frank with me.
We need to work on our loyalty.
♪ Hearts break and people change ♪
♪ I'm startin' to embrace it ♪
My name's Karen Doherty. I'm a couple therapist.
I've been working in the field for over 20 years.
Sit yourselves down.
You thought you had a really open relationship with no secrets.
That's not been the reality.
Do you even find me attractive?
I do think your mum is a bit jealous.
♪ Hearts break and people change I'm startin' to embrace it… ♪
Therapy can be confrontational.
Why have you allowed me, all this time,
to make me think this was a promise ring to marriage?
And it can be emotional.
[woman] It's not okay.
I don't wanna have kids right now, Carmen.
I can't. I can't.
But it's always real.
I don't care about this anymore.
-I'm actually tired. -You see?
-Like, why is she so irritated? -She's hurt.
There is some kind of boundary
that's being crossed, and I'm not okay with that.
It's about the lie.
-The betrayal of trust. -Absolutely.
♪ Hearts break and people change ♪
If I did everything that you did, would you stay with me?
Why are you two even together?
[song ends]
["My Lover" by Jack Hudson, Tim Philpott & Isla Wolfe plays]
♪ Tell me, are you gonna be my lover ♪
♪ Or do you wanna keep this steady? ♪
♪ I wanna be your number one ♪
♪ But I just wanna see you're ready ♪
♪ So please don't take your time ♪
♪ 'Cause I just wanna see you're ready ♪
♪ Overcontemplating too long We both got… ♪
I'm not the type of guy that's usually, like, lovestruck.
But when I saw her, I was just kind of thinking, "Damn."
Like, "Feck, she looks bad," like…
I think the first thing that made me fall in love was the looks.
I can't lie, he's eye candy. Like, mm… chef's kiss.
[chuckles]
♪ Use your words… ♪
Me and Daisy, we've been together for three-plus years now.
The start of the relationship was great.
You know, butterfly stage. Everything was perfect.
I started to realize, like,
I love her, man.
♪ Tell me, are you gonna be my lover or… ♪
It's always been my dream to have a happy family, so I love being a mother.
[Jay] My family is everything to me, man.
But with Daisy, when things are good, they're really good.
When it's bad, it's the pits of hell.
[funky music plays]
♪ I know you heard so many times That you're beautiful ♪
[Daisy] It was a mutual decision for us to come to therapy.
We wanna take our relationship to the next step.
[Jay] The best outcome from this
would be for our communication to improve a lot.
Send Jay and Daisy up, please.
Joseph needs to deeply work on himself.
He is not somebody that can be criticized.
Criticism to him is hate. "You're just hating on me."
I can't be with somebody that I feel, like, likes to argue a lot.
I have to think, how is this gonna affect my daughter?
I mean, she's our priority.
-[Karen] Hello. -[Jay] Hello.
Come on in.
[Daisy] Unless Joseph understands what it is to be a family man,
I don't really see this going any further, to be honest.
[music ends]
[clock ticking]
-[Jay] How are you? -I'm good, thank you.
-You all right? Okay. -Yeah.
How long have you two been together?
-Three years, counting. -Yeah.
Children?
-One. -Yeah, one.
-And how old? -She turned one yesterday.
-Yeah, literally. -[Karen] Congratulations.
[Jay and Daisy] Thank you.
Okay, so why here, why now?
The "why now," 'cause if we don't,
we're gonna end up not being together. [laughs]
-Yeah. [clears throat] -Um… But the "why we're here…"
[clicks tongue] …I would say a lot has happened.
Obviously, it's our first time being parents.
And I feel like I'm just really struggling to forgive him
for his lack of support when I first gave birth.
-Were you there at the birth? -I was there.
-Okay. -Ooh, I mean, as you should be.
-[laughs] -This… This is what I don't understand.
I did do the best that I could,
and I did what pretty much every dad should be doing--
-But your best wasn't enough. -How wasn't it enough?
-That's the point. -It was enough.
How wasn't it? Come on, tell me. How wasn't it?
Um, literally, the day after I gave birth…
-Can I have your hand, please? -Why?
Can I just have your hand?
The day after I gave birth, he went to get this lovely tattoo.
Anybody who's had kids, you can probably imagine, like,
the day after you give birth, you feel like you've been beaten up.
And he thought popping out for a few hours to get a tattoo was acceptable.
Even if I hated somebody, I wouldn't be brave enough to do that.
-That is a stretch, man. -Anyways, continue.
You're at the hospital, they're helping you, taking care of you--
What makes you think that? 'Cause that's annoying.
-Yes, you do have to lift a finger. -This is what she does.
-Just 'cause there's midwives-- -Please stop interrupting.
You get bare vexed when I interrupt you. Answer this one question.
What did I miss out within those four hours that I was gone?
Any… any… any milestone, anything major?
You missed out on an opportunity--
-To? -To make me feel supported.
I didn't support you throughout the whole night,
where I didn't sleep, where you were sleeping, having fun?
-Sleeping, having fun? -[Jay] Yeah.
-You were resting. -Bro, I just pushed her out of my front.
-Yes, I understand. Yeah, it's a big-- -[laughs] What do you mean?
Me sleeping is not me having fun.
[Karen] Come on, what's the theme here?
You just don't feel like you're supported enough.
Yeah.
I feel like this guy's done me so dirty.
-[scoffs] -[Daisy] Honestly, like…
-Bruv… -Jay, let me just hear.
-That is bullshit though. -Let me…
That's how… That's how Daisy feels.
-But a feeling is not fact though. -It still needs to be heard.
Feelings are what brought you here in the first place. You love each other.
So that's how Daisy feels.
Coming to the present. Is this resentment still live on a daily basis?
[Jay] 100%.
It's there because the response is a lack of understanding.
That was wrong. Period, point blank.
[Karen] What about you?
Whenever it comes to me doing anything for myself, she brands it as selfish.
I didn't have a baby. I didn't go through anything physically.
But you did have a baby.
-[Jay] Yeah. When I-- -Hold on.
This baby, you did agree to have it together?
-My daughter wasn't planned. -[Karen] Okay.
Naturally, if something's not planned, there's contemplation.
Like, he was quite adamant that he wasn't ready.
And I also wasn't ready.
But then at some point, it wasn't about me being ready or not.
It was just a matter of my guilty conscience.
-Okay. -So that's the situation.
[contemplative music plays]
[Daisy] During the process of pregnancy,
as much as I was trying not to become attached,
I feel like I just couldn't help but to become attached to her.
Um… [clicks tongue]
I just didn't have the heart to…
To basically…
[scoffs, tsks]
Sorry. [sobs]
I didn't think I was gonna cry. I thought I was a soldier. [laughs]
Um… [breathes deeply]
[exhales sharply]
[contemplative music ends]
[Jay] We were broken up.
Daisy calls me out of nowhere,
and she just basically breaks the news to me on the phone,
tells me she's pregnant.
And I didn't really know what to say or do,
'cause for me, it was just like
this timing is just kind of crazy. I was already moving on with my life.
-I was trying to do my own-- -You were out of the relationship?
-Yeah. I was trying to do my own thing. -Is that what you mean?
And I just feel like she didn't want me to do that.
So you think that I decided to have our daughter to keep you here?
No. That's--
If that's the case, you can s-out right now.
That's not-- What you talking about?
-I didn't say that. Did I say that? -Let me make that clear. That'll annoy me.
It could've been heard like that, but I don't think that's what you mean.
Exactly. For me, it just felt quite convenient.
But what is convenient about raising a child with a man you don't like?
What's convenient about that?
Can I just come in here? You were both very confused.
-Yeah. -[Karen] An unplanned pregnancy.
Not knowing what to do with it.
I'm happy about it now, but it was about how we got there.
It's not like you forced me, but
your actions and how you went about things,
it felt like I was put in a box.
Hold on. Hold on. Why do you think she did that?
-Hurt? Rejected? -Yeah. She was hurt.
-Probably. Maybe. -Scared?
Any of that resonate with you?
Basically.
Yeah. How are you feeling hearing all of this?
I wanna keep my family together. I wanna be with Daisy.
I love her, if I'm being honest, and I love my family.
-Everything about them. -Don't sweeten me up.
-Do you not feel loved by him? -The thing is, I actually do. And this--
This is why I'm just so confused in these situations,
because he will be fantastic,
and then when we talk, I'll hear things that I'm so shocked by.
Like, I didn't know that you felt like that.
Because you never listen to when I'm speaking to you.
Whenever I speak to her, she doesn't wanna hear it.
I just wanna ask you a question.
If you didn't have a baby between you,
would you be together?
[clock ticking]
[exhales]
Yes.
Yeah.
I feel like, to be honest, having a child makes things harder.
-I feel like… -[Karen] Yes.
…there will be a lot less issues and less serious issues to address.
So to be honest, I feel like we would've eventually put our differences aside.
Do you agree?
Yeah, I do think we would be together.
But, like, it's about how you would've gone about the situation.
But now you're in this situation,
you're still harking back to how you got here.
Can you hear that?
-Yeah. -[Karen] But you're here.
-[Jay] Yeah. -And you want to be.
I love my daughter. Like, I wanna be around them.
And the thought of potentially losing them is scary.
I don't want that to happen.
But every single time when there's a major decision that you don't like,
you don't seem to ever be open to speaking about it.
And, for me, that's not nice,
because I feel like you know I've got a soft heart,
and you know that I've got a soft spot for you,
I've got a soft spot for my family.
Can I come in here? Did you hear what he said?
-Yeah. -"I've got a soft spot." [chuckles]
-Did you hear that? -Yeah.
But he just doesn't feel heard.
Okay.
Okay, guys, you're moving in very polarized positions.
We're gonna meet again.
I want you to think about actually, what would be good?
I feel like Daisy just needs to learn how to forgive.
[Karen] What do you think?
I feel like, at a certain point, you need to
just believe that I'm not out to get you.
Some of the things you spoke about, as I said, we've never spoken about.
-Yes, we have. -No, no.
I mean, in this context, we've never spoken about.
Think about the things that have been left out
and that you want to voice between now and the next session.
Yeah.
Thank you both. See you next session. Thank you.
♪ I don't wanna play around anymore ♪
♪ I don't wanna take it I'll leave it at my door ♪
[Karen] Sometimes, people say having a child is a fix for a relationship,
it makes things better. That's just not my experience.
It's another dynamic in an already strained dynamic.
Jay and Daisy haven't had time to build trust between themselves,
and then this baby has caused even more insecurity.
And before you can trust another, one has to trust oneself.
[song ends]
♪ You're the only option And trust I got some options ♪
-♪ A lot of girls look my way ♪ -♪ They look my way ♪
♪ But whenever you call And whenever you need ♪
♪ You know I'll be on my way ♪
♪ So when I pull up I only come to see my baby ♪
♪ It ain't ever too late It's my statement ♪
♪ I'm saying, it don't matter The time I'll wait for you ♪
♪ Girl, so I choose you ♪
♪ And I choose you ♪
[song ends]
[man] Oh, I love this color.
I love sofas like this.
I love this thing. It's nice. We need one of those at home.
[upbeat pop music plays]
♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah… ♪
Maria is one of a kind. She has a very, very good heart.
She's the best person I've ever met. I've met a lot of people.
She's the best person I've ever met. [chuckles]
I see the vibes. I see the vibes.
I see it. [chuckles]
Viktor is a very, very nice man.
He's always been that kind of, like, Prince Charming I've always wanted.
I'd love to be his wife.
[inhales] Does that not sound good?
"Oh, hi, guys. I'm Viktor's wife."
♪ I just wanna breathe the same air The same air… ♪
I like to describe our relationship as fairy-tale love,
you know, like out of the movies.
I was born and raised in Bulgaria,
and ever since I was a young child, I was a bit misunderstood.
I didn't really have anyone in my corner growing up
or even friendship groups.
And now this is just like everything I've wished for, basically.
[Maria] I didn't think I could love someone the way I love him,
but Viktor's my top dog, bestie.
He's my bro through and through. Ride or die. [laughs]
♪ Yeah, say yeah, say yeah ♪
We're madly in love with each other, but we're also business partners.
We have a couples channel.
[Maria] We're on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, you name it.
-On every single social media platform. -We work extremely hard.
We're very much two peas in a pod, and that pod cannot be broken.
♪ Oh, what are you feeling? ♪
♪ 'Cause I'm down on my knees ♪
-[producer] Tell me about the M-word. -Oh…
[producer] Why aren't you married?
Oh God.
Honestly, I don't know, and that's what brings me here.
We've been together for seven years. Why doesn't he wanna get married to me?
Um…
There's been a couple of years
of uncomfortable conversations and grilling.
"When are you thinking about, like, us getting married?"
It's so annoying.
♪ Know that we got issues… ♪
[Viktor] I'm so lucky to have her, to have met her,
but I want us to live life a little bit more
before we start thinking about marriage and kids and all these stuff.
♪ I make you feel ♪
♪ Make you feel so right ♪
♪ Ah, ah, ah, ah ♪
[Karen] It's Maria and Viktor.
Yes. Yes.
-[Karen] Okay. -Thank you for having us.
So, how long have you two been together?
-About seven years now. -Yeah.
And, yeah, been an amazing seven years.
Some of the best times of my life personally, yeah.
So, what brings you to therapy today?
Um, so I was actually the one that suggested that Viktor and I go to therapy,
simply because, you know, we've been in a relationship for so long,
and it feels like Viktor has some sort of commitment issue.
Maybe there's something in his mind that's blocking him
that maybe you can help us. I really feel like we need the help.
Oh, are you under duress? Have you been dragged here?
So I'm definitely not here against my will.
He's very skeptical about therapy, actually.
-[Viktor] I'm not-- -He doesn't believe in therapy.
-He doesn't think it will help. -[Viktor] That's not true.
I just don't think it's for everyone, unless you let it help you.
Let's see how open you are to letting it help you.
-Exactly. -Let's see. [chuckles]
I wanna see what the fuss is all about. Let's see. What you got?
[Karen] Okay, so are you married?
Uh, no, actually.
That's why we're here, why I brought him to therapy.
-Ah. -I don't have a commitment issue.
I'm a very committed guy to everything I put my mind to.
-Yeah. -It's just I believe that I feel happy.
I think we are happy.
I'm deeply in love.
And I don't think that even if I get married tomorrow,
like, I'll give more than what I'm giving right now.
So let's have a think about it. What does marriage mean for you?
Why… Why do you want to get married?
Getting married is my dream. I've always wanted to. I've seen--
But what does it mean?
Well, it means to me, like, the person that you're with
loves you so much that they're willing to commit to you.
[Karen] Yes.
Being able to, when we're signing down a next of kin,
or when I'm filling out a form, to have Mrs. instead of Miss.
-Really? -I don't know.
Maybe it's something that's been embedded in me
since I was, like, young and stuff like that.
But I feel like it's the highest level of love. That's what I feel it is.
Highest level of love and a total commitment.
-Yeah. -[Karen] Okay.
Come in there, Viktor. What are you thinking?
Because there's a lot going on on your face.
So, what's… what's going through the…
Where do I even start from? Um…
A marriage, for me, is just an option. It's not something I need to do.
We live in different times now.
I don't need to get married to be accepted by society.
I don't need to have children to be accepted by society.
I… I hear you. Except…
Yeah?
…you're in a committed relationship.
Yeah.
And you're completely excluding
the preferences, needs, wants, desires of your partner.
Do you feel that he doesn't really take it seriously, the relationship?
Well, in 2020, I received a promise ring from Viktor.
What's that?
I just bought her a ring.
No, when he gave-- He gave it to me on my birthday
and said, "This is my promise ring to you, Maria."
-I did not say that. I did not say that. -He did.
Promise of what?
-Me? You? -Me? I took it as a promise of marriage.
-Is this the ring you're wearing? -[Maria] I got two, yeah. I've got two on.
'Cause he gave me another one in 2024, on my birthday, again.
I bought her a ring for her birthday because I thought she'll love it.
Why have you allowed me, all this time,
to make me think this was a promise ring to marriage?
It makes you happy.
And that's the most important thing, for you to feel happy.
So you're misleading me. You're leading me on.
Honestly, I believe that these promise rings are most likely shut-up rings.
At this point, like, it's just empty promises.
When did you decide that you were so anti-marriage?
[Viktor scoffs]
[exhales] I'm not anti-marriage.
I do things for a reason. I don't see a reason to get married.
-No reason to get married? Okay. -Yeah. Personally, for me--
How does that land with you, "No reason to get married"?
That shit hurt my feelings, bro.
[Karen] What did you say?
I said it hurt my feelings. Him saying that there's no reason.
[sad music plays]
Because we're already happy, man.
It doesn't feel like it's 100% true, here and now.
That's what I'm trying to say, the reasoning behind it.
Is it because it's actually going to change something between us?
"There's no reason." You don't feel there's a reason to get married.
That means I'm not… I'm not a big enough reason
for you to want to get married.
Now, that's crazy.
Can I take a break?
God. I'm sorry.
This guy is so fricking…
[Viktor] Yep.
[Karen] How does that feel?
I'm kind of used to it, honestly, Karen. That-- That's my life.
I've always been misunderstood for being "different," let's call it.
I'm accepting everyone around me the way they are,
but no one's accepting me for who I am.
People live in the gray.
Maybe you're a bit black and white about that,
and maybe Maria's just a little bit more gray.
[Viktor] When we have a disagreement about something,
that's when I feel a bit disconnected from her.
Sometimes I realize I'm a bit blunt and straight to the point,
but I cannot reprogram myself.
I'm just a different type of guy. It's not for everyone.
[birds chirping]
I'm back.
-Hello. -[Viktor] You okay?
-[Maria] Mm-hmm. -You good?
How are you feeling?
I sort of need to know what's going on.
-I'm okay. -[Karen] You okay?
-[Viktor] Yeah? -Yeah.
[Karen] Do you mind if I dig into that a bit?
He just doesn't wanna get married to me, clearly.
-It doesn't make sense, so… -What's that gonna change for us?
Let's say we're married. How… How's tomorrow gonna look for us?
Are you gonna love me more if we marry?
Are you holding back on some love? Is that what you're trying to say?
What about your family? How do they… How do they respond to… to your couple?
Just set me off again.
-Whose fault is that? It's their fault. -[Karen] You okay? I don't wanna…
-You all right? -Yeah.
It's been tough.
What happened?
Last year, I called my mum to say "Happy Mother's Day" to her.
And basically, she didn't realize that she was on loudspeaker,
and Viktor heard everything.
What she said was,
"You're giving yourself to a man that doesn't even want to marry you."
[exhales]
[melancholy music plays]
[sniffles]
And it's tough because I love my family. [sniffles]
[exhales]
[sniffles]
And I know with Viktor, Viktor's okay with not talking with his family
or not being, you know, like, close with his family and stuff.
But I'm a different person.
What about your relationship with Maria's family?
E… [scoffs]
There's not much of that.
Maria's parents have said previously that they do accept me and love me as a son,
but I haven't really seen that.
I'm not really the type of guy that's too much into family.
I just need that one solid person, and that's Maria.
She's perfect.
I thought I'd just be loved,
and the fact that their daughter is happy with me
would just be enough for them.
But it's not… But it's under condition.
For them to accept me and really respect me, we have to get married,
we gotta have kids, gotta have the house, all of these stuff.
And if these people do not respect me, it's not gonna work.
[Karen] "These people"?
-Well-- Yeah. Her family. -[Karen] Her family?
How do you feel?
It's a mother looking out for their daughter.
-That's how it seems like to me. -How does that land with you, Viktor?
Her mum's looking out for her in the way that she can.
I totally understand that. 100% understand that, yeah.
I just think they think I'm not worth it, I'm not good enough. That's fine.
It doesn't necessarily say that you're not good enough.
It might not be about you.
It's about their system.
-Sure, yeah. -Yeah.
Their value system, their familial system. It's not about you.
Yeah. Yeah, we could look at it that way too, so, yeah.
That relationship with your family, you're continually conflicted…
-Yeah. -…between one and the other.
It's like I often feel like I have to tell Viktor one thing,
then tell my family another.
[Karen] Another thing. Say more about that.
[Maria] Um…
Viktor, it feels very, very touchy, like, of just giving people money.
Even for Christmas.
He finds it weird that for Christmas I give my mum money.
Why don't you just buy her something?
Well, you see how you think that I'm still paying off my car?
-Yeah, so she… she purchased a car. -[Karen] Yeah.
But instead of taking a loan and doing the whole interest thing,
her mum purchased the whole amount,
and now she's just sending her some sort of small amount every single month, yeah.
I actually finished paying off my car, like, years ago.
I'm just sending them money.
What do you mean?
So you've just been sending your parents money?
That's serious. Like, really? Like, for years? Really?
That's what we do? And you just didn't tell me?
Being from a Nigerian background, our culture is based around respect.
That's just how it is.
And I try to be as selfless as I can towards my parents.
And it's so frustrating
because it's like, it's my culture, suck it up,
live with it, it's not that deep.
You're sending money to your family that does not respect me as a person.
You see how you're contradicting yourself?
And then you expect me to… to marry you.
How's that leaving you feeling?
Like a fool.
-It's not the money though, is it? -It's about the lie.
You're keeping something from me for so… for so long.
-So it's about the betrayal of trust? -Absolutely.
Isn't it being torn between the two things that she loves the most,
you and her family?
All it is, is symbolic of this big difference,
this big problem that you as a couple have,
which is your different values.
The way that marriage isn't for you, and it's absolutely…
It's… It's a necessity for you.
So I'm gonna leave you with that,
to think about until the next session.
-Thank you for your time. Appreciate you. -Thank you.
[tense music plays]
[Maria] Babe, sorry.
[Karen] In my experience, people withhold because they are frightened.
They are frightened of not being accepted.
[Viktor] You do realize how serious that is?
-[Maria] Sorry. -[Viktor] Just leave me alone.
♪ I don't wanna talk about us Boy, you lost my trust ♪
-Can you get that door for me? -No.
Let's get at it, bruv. Don't even know the half of it.
Everything ain't come out. I've got more shit to say.
I think, to a degree, we all withhold,
but it's why.
♪ Talk about us, don't call me up ♪
Maybe we are too ashamed, or we feel guilty.
If you dig deep enough,
you're probably withholding something from your partner.
♪ You were holding my heart ♪
♪ Locking in right from the start ♪
♪ Why do you have to pull apart? ♪
♪ I want it all back I want it all back, yeah ♪
♪ Tell me something How could you? ♪
♪ We were all I ever knew ♪
♪ How will I ever get through? ♪
♪ I want it all back I want it all back, yeah ♪
I've always found therapy a little bit… Does it really help?
I'm very good at talking and articulating myself.
I can be very blunt and very direct.
-What you doing? -Hmm?
[Yasmin] With us being in therapy,
I perhaps need to think about how I can communicate
in a way that will land with Michael,
especially on topics that I know he's sensitive with, especially money.
You're asking too many questions.
-Go away, please. -[Yasmin] All right.
My only concern is that Michael might be dismissive of what happens in therapy.
But at the end of the day, he said that he would give it a chance.
♪ I don’t wanna keep fighting What I want ♪
We met through my work manager.
And she was like,
"Let me set you up with this guy. He's gonna be really good for you."
She said, "You seem to fit the mold." And I said, "Okay, what's the mold then?"
She said, "Short, funny, and Nigerian."
[laughs]
♪ …what I want ♪
We've been together for five years.
It's been the nearest thing to heaven, I'll call it.
[people cheering]
[Mike] She's very selfless.
She takes her role as a mum very seriously.
Yeah, she's perfect.
The main issue that we're having in our relationship
is Michael's attachment to money.
I think that's where we clash heads.
[melancholy music plays]
[Mike] Growing up was really hard financially.
There was times where there was no hot water,
not having enough money to put £10 on the electric,
so having to use candles overnight.
Stuff that I wouldn't want my children to go through, basically.
After a while, that inner child that was exposed to the lack of money
wanted more and more things, even if I couldn't afford them.
There was a lot of expectations and a lot of pressure
on becoming something or someone.
I just thought, "You know what? I'm gonna keep buying and spending."
The best outcome I think I can get from being here,
I'll be able to actually explain and express how I feel,
hopefully, I say.
[music ends]
[clock ticking]
[Karen] Hello, both.
-So how long have you two been together? -Been roughly about five years.
-Five years, yeah. -[Karen] Okay.
-And children? -Yes. We got two. Um…
One together, and then Mike has a… a child from a previous relationship.
[Mike] Yeah.
So tell me, what did you see in each other?
What brought you together?
I think, for me, he was just so open from the beginning
about who he was,
and I think it just allowed us to have so many
important conversations very early on.
Yeah.
And there's never a time where I don't feel safe.
So it was just like why am I gonna waste time with anyone else
if I can see I've got a good thing in front of me?
How do you feel when she says that?
It makes me feel good, I'll be honest with you.
So, what brings you here today?
We're engaged.
We want to get married, we want more children,
we wanna get on the property ladder,
and the financial situation between us
is causing some difficulty in our relationship.
So, do you agree?
[Mike] To a certain extent, yeah.
There are some things I would like to probably express
with someone that can actually allow us to express ourselves.
So can you tell me what you both do?
So I'm a teacher.
-And what about you, Mike? -I'm a business banking manager.
Okay. So in terms of income,
do you earn basically the same, or is there a difference?
Definitely not.
She earns twice as much as me.
-Twice as much? -Yeah.
Is that an issue?
My values is the man earns the most.
Not to say that Yasmin's made me feel that way,
but I think it is ingrained in me.
It's ingrained, yeah. It's entrenched in you.
How do you manage it? That must be really difficult for you.
[exhales] It's not easy. Um…
Her earning twice as much as me
sometimes makes me feel like I… not necessarily need to compete,
but I've obviously gone into debt, and I've… [exhales]
It… It is hard for me
because most of my disposable income goes towards debts.
Then that also shifts the dynam… the dynamics
and the bill paying and the rent paying in the house as well.
Yeah, so how does that work out?
So, it's so embarrassing to say, but she pays basically 70% of the rent.
And saying that out loud
makes me feel less than, makes me feel a little bit this big, basically.
So do you know how much debt that Mike has at the moment?
I have an idea of how much it is, but I don't--
So, what's your idea of the debt?
My idea is that it's around 6,000.
[Karen] Okay.
Is Yasmin's idea of the debt accurate?
No.
It's basically doubled.
You're not serious? [laughs nervously]
I'm-- Yeah.
How can you wait 'til we come to here to say that?
It… [exhales]
I don't like the feeling of, first of all, having debt.
But I've never, ever given you reason
to not be open and honest with me when it comes to those conversations.
There's never been a time where I've judged you on it,
where I've said anything
to make you feel like you can't have that conversation with me.
I'm putting myself in a vulnerable situation
where I'm telling you about my debt, and this is the reaction I'm gonna get.
-Which is why I-- -Don't make it out like that.
It's not like that when we're at home. When we're at home, it's not like that.
It's the fact you've let it come to here.
How can it snowball to that point?
I've always said I don't mind doing X, Y, and Z if it's for us.
But if it's gonna keep snowballing, then it's not for us, is it?
You're not making decisions for us. You're making decisions for you.
-[Mike] Hm. -And that doesn't make sense.
I just don't like being talked to like I'm a child.
I don't talk about my debt because I know I'll get a reaction like this.
This isn't from… This isn't from the debt.
This is from the fact that you've let it snowball.
I've just been… I've had…
I've made bad financial decisions.
If we go food shopping, I will buy for everyone,
and he will go separately and go and buy food for him.
Organic grass-fed meat, organic fruit and veg.
I think my thing is consistently, impulsively buying things
that are not necessarily expensive.
-But over time… Yes. -They mount up.
And that's what it is. It's buying… It's buying the takeaways.
Sometimes I'm spending anywhere from £50 to £100 every other day, basically.
It's buying the fragrances I don't need, that are not even the name-brand--
Yeah, but the way you spend is not normal.
Because you won't just go out and buy one fragrance.
-You will have, like, seven-- -So I'm not normal?
You'll have seven deliveries come.
That's not normal, to go and buy seven fragrances in one go.
I don't like to be told that I'm not normal.
I know it's not… It's not great, is it? It's not ideal.
No one's saying you can't treat yourself. Why do you need to buy seven?
Why can't you just say I want that one and that one, and then when things…
-When I've got more money, then I'll get-- -Because I don't want to.
-[Yasmin] That's how you've ended up here. -Yeah, well…
Having debt is so embarrassing and it's so hard to talk about.
All of that ties into what makes you a man, in my personal opinion.
So you spend the money to sort of treat yourself, to look after yourself.
-[Yasmin] That's exactly it. -Is that ringing true?
Culture plays a massive part in how I think about money as well.
Sometimes trying to show that I can
be the head of the household or the breadwinner
has obviously set me back a bit as well.
There's a real contradiction going on here, isn't there?
This is your culture, but, in a way, Yasmin is setting that aside
and she's willing to accept you on a completely different basis.
I just have a real anxiety, or… insecurity about finances.
And also she hasn't shown me,
maybe, um,
when we're together, basically, that she still kind of wants to be here.
If I didn't wanna be here, I wouldn't be here.
[Mike] I do feel like the finances have affected our relationship.
-And she looks for-- -I feel like it's affected you.
And most of what Yasmin has said in this session…
-[Mike] Mm. -…doesn't back that up, Mike.
Now that we're here, and obviously I said I'm gonna try to be open and honest…
[exhales] It's so hard. Um…
This is the biggest thing I've ever kept from Yasmin.
We don't ever keep secrets from each other.
[melancholy music playing]
Remember I told you that I had, like, a…
I had a reshuffle at work.
And they've been moving people around and all the rest of it.
But, um,
I've been made redundant.
[dramatic sting]
[inhales deeply]
[Mike] And, um, it's been two months.
It's embarrassing to say, but, literally, I'll dress up like I'm going to work.
We leave the house around the same time.
-[Yasmin sighs] -And then I'll literally circle round,
and as long as she's gone to work, I'll just circle back home.
I just feel completely and utterly blindsided.
He's been living another life, just lying to me.
I can't… I can't even look at you right now. I can't.
["Watch the World Burn" by Rora Wilde plays]
♪ Ooh, watch it all burn ♪
♪ Ooh, burn ♪
["Watch the World Burn" ends]