1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:07,960 [bright music plays] 2 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,640 [Shay] It's like… 3 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,760 I don't know, like, I'm trying. I want you to understand that I am trying. 4 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,400 Like, maybe I'm not-- I'm not-- 5 00:00:31,479 --> 00:00:34,680 I haven't been good at communication, like, communicating with you. 6 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,239 I haven't been good at that. It's a work in process. 7 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,080 Things ain't gonna happen overnight, do you understand what I'm saying? 8 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:41,919 So it's how can we stay where we are? 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,239 I think my biggest worry is I don't want you to go back. 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,960 I know, like, a lot has gone on, 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,080 and I know that it's p-- 12 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:52,599 I'm asking for a lot. I just need that extra bit of trust. 13 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,360 Otherwise, yeah, like, we can't keep doing this, can we, kind of thing. 14 00:00:59,559 --> 00:01:02,599 That really is something that you two need to think about, 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,519 going forward with your couple. 16 00:01:05,039 --> 00:01:08,160 I'm gonna read these out and you can have a think about these together. Okay? 17 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,160 Mm-hmm. 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,960 So, um, "In a relationship, I believe my role is…" 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,000 And, "A belief I carry that helps me feel safe in relationships is…" 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,720 So have a think about what that is that you hold. 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,440 -They feel okay? -Yeah. 22 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,160 -Thank you very much. -[Shay] Thank you. 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:28,160 Thank you so much. 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,560 -I'll see you next time. -See you next time. 25 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:31,600 [soft music plays] 26 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:32,960 -[Mons] Bye. -[Karen] Bye. 27 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,199 It's obvious to me that Shay and Mons have real feelings for each other, 28 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,960 but they've got slightly different agendas. 29 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,360 Shay's behavior really hurts Mons. 30 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,280 She's out and about getting attention, paying attention to people, 31 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,920 and Mons is allowing that and facilitating that. 32 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,759 Somehow these two haven't got onto the same page 33 00:01:53,839 --> 00:01:55,600 around infidelity. 34 00:01:55,679 --> 00:01:57,679 [music continues] 35 00:02:01,039 --> 00:02:03,039 [music intensifies] 36 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:06,759 [music fades] 37 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,280 ♪ I never had no I never had no love like this ♪ 38 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,840 ♪ It's been a long, long time ♪ 39 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,920 Me and Junior have been together almost 20 years now. 40 00:02:21,799 --> 00:02:25,320 Junior, he was different to any other guy that I had previously been with. 41 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:28,120 To me, he was kind of like home. 42 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,760 We met at my friend's birthday party. 43 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,519 I think I might've fell in love in that moment. [chuckles] 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,840 We have three kids, two girls and a boy. 45 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:41,680 Being a dad means the world to me. 46 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,280 When I think of my family unit, my heart feels warm. 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,720 Junior is the person that everyone loves. 48 00:02:47,799 --> 00:02:50,880 An amazing father, incredible husband, 49 00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:52,679 when he wants to be. [laughs] 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,799 [Junior] We were very happy, 51 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:56,799 but we started fighting a lot. 52 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,519 [upbeat music plays] 53 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,360 Me being a DJ, you know, back in the day when I used to tour with a big artist, 54 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,080 it was quite intense, it was a lot, and, you know, she didn't really love it. 55 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,080 There have been long periods of time 56 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,799 where he's been away because it comes with the job. 57 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,560 I loved my husband, he loved me, 58 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:18,120 but that was not enough to keep us together. 59 00:03:19,799 --> 00:03:22,040 We were separated for a couple of years. 60 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,239 We got back together, 61 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,000 and we decided to make a commitment to each other and to our family again, 62 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:29,560 and we started again. 63 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:32,519 ♪ Your bad love is trouble ♪ 64 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:33,679 ♪ Yeah, trouble's gotta… ♪ 65 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,920 The reason why we have decided we'd opt for therapy 66 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,600 is because we have issues communicating. 67 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,640 [Junior] We're arguing too much, not understanding each other. 68 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,040 We're not listening to each other. 69 00:03:46,119 --> 00:03:47,560 Mainly, she's not listening to me. 70 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,119 I don't want to end up where we were before, 71 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,880 you know, breaking our family apart. 72 00:03:52,959 --> 00:03:55,040 Like, I never, ever wanna go back there again. 73 00:03:59,399 --> 00:04:00,959 [song ends] 74 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,959 [clock ticking] 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,839 -Hello. -[Karen] Good morning. 76 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,799 Welcome. Sit down. Make yourselves comfortable. 77 00:04:08,679 --> 00:04:11,560 Okay, why have you come here today? 78 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,159 Well, we have been through a lot of ups and downs. 79 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:21,720 We just feel we need help to kind of level up our relationship 80 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,320 and improve certain things, 81 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,680 mainly being communication. 82 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,640 Yeah, it's the communication. 83 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,880 For me, I feel like I'm not listened to. Um… 84 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,200 And I feel like he doesn't take me seriously. 85 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:37,120 As you'll notice, whenever I'm speaking, she never lets me speak. 86 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,440 -She always chimes in and cuts-- -I mean, I just-- 87 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,960 I just don't feel like he takes me seriously with, like… 88 00:04:43,039 --> 00:04:45,599 -I don't feel like you-- -[Carmen] …big decisions for the family. 89 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,720 I don't feel you take me seriously with small decisions. 90 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,120 Are you always bickering? 91 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,200 At the moment, we're either bickering or not talking. 92 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:53,240 -So it's like-- -Yeah. 93 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,240 -I tend to, like, snap sometimes, don't I? -I'm glad you can admit that today. 94 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,880 I'm happy to admit, like, I'm not perfect. 95 00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:03,120 [Junior] I feel like sometimes she just likes arguing with me. 96 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,000 And she likes to be like, "Ha-ha, you're wrong." 97 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,440 -[chuckles] You know? -No. 98 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:08,960 -Are you sure? -No. 99 00:05:09,039 --> 00:05:12,000 -How does that make you feel? -It makes me feel like we're lost. 100 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,000 Like, it makes me feel like he just doesn't understand me. 101 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,080 And it makes me feel like I don't really understand him. 102 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,080 I'm wondering why you would think that Carmen, 103 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,160 who loves you and is your wife, would want to go against you. 104 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,240 It's causing a huge divide, I'd say. 105 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,599 How did that happen? When did it start to happen? 106 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,080 What's going on? 107 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,160 Well, we separated for two years 108 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,160 about five years ago. 109 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,599 I feel like we got to that point 110 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,680 because we argued and bickered so much 111 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,840 and the communication broke down. 112 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,520 And I feel like now we're starting to argue again. 113 00:05:53,599 --> 00:05:56,440 For me, I wanna ensure that we don't ever get back to that point. 114 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:57,760 Yeah. 115 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:00,400 This break, tell me how it happened. 116 00:06:00,919 --> 00:06:04,120 We just were not getting along on any level. 117 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,599 I was unhappy with many things. 118 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,520 Um, our communication, again, it was not-- 119 00:06:10,599 --> 00:06:12,120 It was-- It was very toxic. 120 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,160 We just were butting heads on everything. 121 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,320 I mean, also, like, if we're-- if I'm honest, um, 122 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,320 Carmen wasn't happy because I wasn't ready to… extend the family. 123 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:30,840 I was of the opinion that, you know, we should plan a bit better 124 00:06:30,919 --> 00:06:32,799 to bring another member of the family in. 125 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,000 I've always wanted, like, a really big family, 126 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,919 so that's obviously really important to me. 127 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,880 Okay, so there's quite a difference between you on that. 128 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,919 -Yeah. Definitely. -[Karen] Okay. 129 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,960 How much work was done about the break? 130 00:06:45,039 --> 00:06:47,560 Did you ever really process it together, 131 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,799 the reasons that you had broken up? 132 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:51,840 [exhales] Not really. 133 00:06:52,799 --> 00:06:54,280 How did you reconcile? 134 00:06:54,799 --> 00:06:59,200 Six months after our son was born, 135 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,799 Carmen had to get rushed to hospital with the baby. 136 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,599 -Yeah. -And, um, in that moment, 137 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:09,280 something just came over me, and I just felt like 138 00:07:09,919 --> 00:07:11,880 I need to be there for my family. 139 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,080 I'm sorry, can I just check the timeline here? 140 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,440 When was the baby conceived? 141 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Baby was conceived when we were broken up. 142 00:07:18,599 --> 00:07:20,000 -[Carmen] Yeah. -[Junior] Yeah. 143 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,640 We had a little moment 144 00:07:21,719 --> 00:07:25,039 where, like, for a few weeks, we tried to fix things. 145 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,840 -[Karen] Yeah. -Then the baby was conceived. 146 00:07:26,919 --> 00:07:29,479 A mutual decision, so you're gonna have the baby. 147 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,039 Yeah, we both agreed on that. 148 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,760 It was quite shocking when Carmen told me that she was pregnant. 149 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,560 It was kind of like there was a crazy storm going on, 150 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,840 all of a sudden our son was born, and then everything just went calm. 151 00:07:42,919 --> 00:07:45,000 It was a massive blessing, to be honest. 152 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,080 He really kind of brought the family back together. 153 00:07:48,159 --> 00:07:51,080 So, what I'm hearing from both of you 154 00:07:51,159 --> 00:07:54,799 is that there are some really deep wounds that have not healed. 155 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,080 Yeah. 156 00:07:56,799 --> 00:07:59,159 I mean, the thing that has caused me a lot of hurt 157 00:07:59,239 --> 00:08:02,039 is the way she asked me for a divorce 158 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,440 on my birthday. 159 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,120 [melancholy music plays] 160 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,560 She asked me for a divorce after having an argument on my birthday. 161 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,560 Although we'd had a lot of fights and disagreements, 162 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,320 I never really saw it coming. 163 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,960 You know, as far as I'm concerned, she's my soulmate. 164 00:08:18,039 --> 00:08:21,400 So I kind of just assumed that whatever we're going through, 165 00:08:21,479 --> 00:08:22,760 things would be okay. 166 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,880 I just packed my stuff, moved out. 167 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,280 Um, it was quite difficult for me because I'm a very hands-on dad, 168 00:08:29,359 --> 00:08:32,039 so being away from my kids, it was devastating. 169 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,640 [breathes deeply] 170 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,760 It affected me negatively, put me in a really bad mental space, 171 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,440 and I suffered for a while. 172 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:44,520 [music ends] 173 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,120 You all right, Junior? 174 00:08:52,199 --> 00:08:53,920 What was going on? What happened? 175 00:08:54,440 --> 00:09:00,480 I stumbled across something, um, that made me feel uncomfortable. 176 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:04,040 A girl DMing him in, like, a flirtatious way. 177 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,520 I'd just had enough. 178 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,320 Obviously, that was not the only reason for the break-up. 179 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,120 There were loads of things, 180 00:09:12,199 --> 00:09:15,160 like our communication was just at an all-time low. 181 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,199 -Things were going left. -Everything was happening. 182 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,600 -Everything was bad. -All at once. 183 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:21,120 -[Junior] We'd been fighting for months. -[Carmen] Yeah. 184 00:09:21,199 --> 00:09:23,079 I can admit that things were bad. 185 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,959 But where I'm from, there's no such thing as break-up, divorce. 186 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,760 Once you've built a family, that's yours and that's yours for life. 187 00:09:29,839 --> 00:09:34,520 But I feel like there are some things that can become deal-breakers. 188 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,280 I just don't see why that conversation needed to be had 189 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,400 on a day that I have to celebrate. 190 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,440 I just don't understand why you, like, hold onto things so much. 191 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,160 If somebody makes a mistake, even if you make a mistake, Junior, 192 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,839 surely that's painful to keep being reminded of it. 193 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:55,120 -Are you all right? -[Carmen] I'm okay. 194 00:09:55,199 --> 00:09:58,040 It just feels like you just never wanna move forward. 195 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,440 I do wanna move forward, but I've just struggled to understand why. 196 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,480 Why… Why did that happen? Why did that have to happen on that day? 197 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:09,199 It wasn't that. Like, I didn't-- That was not my intention. 198 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,000 Like, I totally get it. 199 00:10:11,079 --> 00:10:14,680 What's it gonna take for you to sort of reframe that 200 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,360 so it doesn't just stick? 201 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,040 And it's causing a block for you, Junior. 202 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,040 If you can't get through that, 203 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,920 you're not gonna be able to have this new grown-up relationship. 204 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,120 'Cause, really, your old relationship, you were so young. 205 00:10:29,199 --> 00:10:32,320 And now you're moving into something older and wiser. 206 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,560 I've got some homework for you two. 207 00:10:36,079 --> 00:10:39,440 So these are the questions, okay? And you're gonna answer them separately. 208 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,400 When do you feel most appreciated by me? 209 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,560 What do you miss most about how we used to connect? 210 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,320 What is something small that I can do over the weeks to make you feel seen? 211 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,959 And we will go through that in the next session. 212 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:57,040 -Okay? -Yeah. 213 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:58,240 Okay. Well, thank you. 214 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,560 Thank you, guys. 215 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,520 ♪ Looking back It's like I never stopped running ♪ 216 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:04,880 [exhales] 217 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:09,079 There's a lot of baggage in this couple. 218 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,320 Junior's resentment around Carmen asking for the divorce 219 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,880 is actually stopping him from thinking in the present. 220 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,280 And it's only by really exorcizing that hurt, 221 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,959 talking about it, and then recalibrating, 222 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,640 that you can move on. 223 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,920 ♪ No other way ♪ 224 00:11:33,719 --> 00:11:37,680 ♪ I'm switching lanes ♪ 225 00:11:39,719 --> 00:11:43,880 ♪ I'm done with this memory ♪ 226 00:11:43,959 --> 00:11:46,360 [phone buzzing] 227 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,719 Stanford. I've been meaning to call you, you know? 228 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,839 Busy, busy, busy. How've you been? 229 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:56,520 Jermaine has definitely changed. He's just become focused in getting more. 230 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,959 [Jermaine] Woo! You know, when he calls, it's important. 231 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,040 -But I'm important too, babe. -You are important. 232 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,440 But, you see, this is on par. 233 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,320 And I need you to be on board with that. 234 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,719 Anything worth doing is worth doing well. So I go 100% in everything. 235 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,800 I only want the best for her and our kids. 236 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,480 I do feel that my say doesn't really matter. 237 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,040 But then I think, if it weren't for my say, 238 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:20,240 would we even be here? 239 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,760 [music ends] 240 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,079 -[Karen] Welcome back. -[Jermaine] Thank you. 241 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,440 [Karen] Feeling comfortable? 242 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,560 -Yeah. Yeah, comfy. -Ready for the ride. 243 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:32,760 [laughing] 244 00:12:32,839 --> 00:12:33,920 [Jermaine] Yeah. 245 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,079 [Karen] Okay. 246 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,000 The sort of themes that we started to talk about, 247 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,440 work-life balance, perceived inequality, 248 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,680 the sense of not feeling valued. 249 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,199 -Either of you. -Yeah. 250 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,199 How did that feel for you, Dami? 251 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,240 There's so many issues that need to be fixed. 252 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,079 -That's why we've got you, Karen. [laughs] -[laughs] 253 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,360 You're gonna help us fix those problems. 254 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,000 -I'm gonna try. -[Dami chuckles] 255 00:12:58,079 --> 00:13:01,680 Can I come on to how you felt after the session, Jermaine? 256 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,079 [clicks tongue] Um… 257 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,920 I'm not gonna lie. I felt that you guys were ganging up on me a bit, 258 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,440 but I felt good. 259 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,120 -Did you? -Yeah, just a bit. 260 00:13:11,199 --> 00:13:12,839 Did you feel that I didn't give you space? 261 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,400 [Jermaine] No, you gave me space, 262 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,680 but I feel like everything was more catered towards 263 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,160 the feelings of my wife. 264 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:20,599 -I felt like-- -Two women in a room? 265 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:23,199 Two women in a room. Might be paranoid, but that's how I felt. 266 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,280 And how about that I'm a white woman as well? 267 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,920 -No? Middle-aged? Old-- Older woman? -No, no. No, no, no. 268 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,800 No, no, no. You're not old. You know the score. 269 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,000 No, but that would be okay for you to question that. 270 00:13:37,079 --> 00:13:37,920 Yeah, no. 271 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,120 Whether I understood what you were bringing. That'd be okay. 272 00:13:40,199 --> 00:13:42,400 I think you definitely understood 'cause you was able 273 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,040 to bring out really good points from our conversation, 274 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,360 so nothing like that. I just felt like you guys ganged up on me. 275 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,839 I thought you were pretty fair. 276 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,680 [Karen] It's interesting because Jermaine feels like that in life. 277 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,320 It's not just in this room, is it? 278 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,320 You do feel on your own a lot. 279 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,880 Yeah, 'cause I am. 280 00:14:01,959 --> 00:14:05,120 [chuckles] Look, I'm a young Black man 281 00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:07,839 in a predominantly white country. I'm a minority. 282 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,839 I can talk to you about certain things, but you're a woman. 283 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,199 You've never walked in my shoes. You won't understand-- 284 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,920 What area in your life do you feel alone? 285 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:18,640 It's a loaded question. 286 00:14:18,719 --> 00:14:23,240 Sometimes, men, we… we don't speak about our emotions. 287 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,719 Dami doesn't quite understand how I internalize things. 288 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,839 She needs to cut me some slack every now and then. 289 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,400 Being the head of the household, 290 00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:36,680 having the… having the crown, you are alone. 291 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,400 When we first got together, you used to share things with me. 292 00:14:41,479 --> 00:14:43,560 -Mm-hmm. -It was just us against the world. 293 00:14:44,319 --> 00:14:45,280 We were really close. 294 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,800 -Like, we were like best-- -We are still close. We are still close. 295 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,040 -We were closer than what we are now. -Yeah. 296 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,400 I don't know if it's the babies. I don't know if it's the business. 297 00:14:54,479 --> 00:14:56,920 But this is all new because he wasn't always like this. 298 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,360 But you're doing it all for your family, Jermaine, aren't you? 299 00:15:00,439 --> 00:15:02,839 -For sure. -What if the family breaks down? 300 00:15:03,439 --> 00:15:06,920 That's what Dami's here for, to keep-- She's the family glue. 301 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,640 -I can't-- -She's the CEO of the household. 302 00:15:08,719 --> 00:15:12,040 I heard that, and I like it, but Dami doesn't feel heard. 303 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,520 Yeah, neither do I. 304 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,640 [Karen] How do you experience that? 305 00:15:15,719 --> 00:15:19,199 You know when you were younger and your parents were keeping tabs on you? 306 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,760 "Where are you? Where have you gone? Oh, come back." 307 00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:24,680 Sometimes, I feel like I kind of get that, 308 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,719 and I guess I get frustrated as a result of that. 309 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,920 -Okay. -So, what do you want different? 310 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,160 So if I say I'm gonna be home at seven o'clock, 311 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,160 and I can't make it home for seven because something has come up, 312 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,680 and maybe I've not had time to drop a text, because, you know-- 313 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,839 I am so sorry to interrupt. 314 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,079 But in that time that you know you're going somewhere, 315 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,599 or something's come up, 316 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,520 that is your cue to be like, 317 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,439 "Hey, wife and children, 318 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,360 not gonna get home for seven, 319 00:15:54,439 --> 00:15:56,800 but I'll see you at ten." 320 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,680 -You don't treat your partner like that. -I don't do it all the time. 321 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,439 Especially when you've got a habit 322 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,880 of, like, flantering with clients and stuff. 323 00:16:07,959 --> 00:16:11,479 -I knew this was gonna come up. -Flantering? Flirting and bantering? 324 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,760 -Yes, at the same time. -Okay. Oh. Flantering. 325 00:16:15,839 --> 00:16:17,920 -I love that word. I'm gonna use that. -Yeah. 326 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,800 Talk to me about it 'cause I don't know anything about it. 327 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,319 Yeah. Well, I've got someone in my office that we're really close. 328 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,120 In a professional space, right? 329 00:16:26,199 --> 00:16:28,719 She makes me coffee. She takes notes at the meetings. 330 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,400 She knows just how he likes his coffee, Karen. 331 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,520 But it's professional. It's not sleazy. 332 00:16:34,599 --> 00:16:36,599 Maybe in your eyes it's professional. 333 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,280 She's, like, so excited to talk to him. 334 00:16:39,359 --> 00:16:42,920 The only woman in your life that should be giggling when you call is me. 335 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,479 I've heard you tell her her coffee is the best. 336 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,599 Is it just the coffee that's the best? 337 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,199 It's just the coffee that's the best. 338 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,719 She works well. She makes great coffee. She's amazing. 339 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,199 -It's-- -She's amazing? 340 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,319 She's amazing. She does her job fantastically. 341 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,920 When was the last time you called me amazing like that? 342 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,040 I told you you looked beautiful this morning. 343 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,479 -Not amazing. -[Jermaine] But-- 344 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,560 Come on. Karen, help… help me out here. 345 00:17:04,639 --> 00:17:08,200 -I think he meant amazing at her job. -[Jermaine] She's amazing at her job. 346 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,560 -It's professional. -I just-- I'm uncomfortable about it. 347 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,720 There is some kind of boundary, whether you mean it or not, 348 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,880 that's being crossed, and I'm not okay with that. 349 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,480 -That's the flanter line that I've drawn. -But I don't think flanter's okay. 350 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,720 -If the shoe was on the other foot… -Yes, it's ridiculous. 351 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,480 -And I-- -That's ridiculous. 352 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,600 -Why? I mean, Dami-- -[Jermaine] Because men-- 353 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,840 [Karen] Dami could have her own PA, and a male PA. 354 00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:33,120 -Excuse me? -Yeah. But… 355 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,440 Wait, a male PA that waits on you hand and foot is a bit weird. 356 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,760 Have you ever seen that in any space? Like, come on. 357 00:17:40,399 --> 00:17:44,919 Dami has a point here. How comfortable would you be with her flantering? 358 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,000 [Jermaine] I wouldn't be. 359 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,600 -[Karen] Ah. -I wouldn't be. I would understand it. 360 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,800 -Flantering for the coins. -[exhales] 361 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:53,960 I wouldn't be. 362 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,680 -Well-owned. -Yeah. 363 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,040 Dami, let's just get this in perspective. 364 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,800 Do you really feel envious of her? 365 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,000 I feel like he spends more time with her than he does with me. 366 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:06,919 [Karen] Yeah. 367 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,919 And then she's getting all the good bits of him, 368 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,280 and then I get the crappy bits. 369 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:13,720 -[Jermaine] I understand that. -Yes. 370 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,560 Because, again, I spend more time at work than I do at home. 371 00:18:17,159 --> 00:18:20,960 What I'm getting from this conversation is that you want more quality time. 372 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,200 -And you're comparing-- -She wants you present. 373 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:24,919 I'm gonna give you homework. 374 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,040 -Okay. -[Jermaine] Right. 375 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,440 I'd like you to re-create an early or memorable date. 376 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,440 Something that you did when you were really good together. 377 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,120 Try and revisit that and see how that leaves you feeling. 378 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,480 See if you can get back into a connected place. 379 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:40,600 -We can do that. -We can try. 380 00:18:40,679 --> 00:18:44,000 -Great. Thank you so much for today. -[Jermaine and Dami] Thank you. 381 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,120 Go on, you. 382 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:46,679 ♪ Be my lover… ♪ 383 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,080 [Karen] Thank you. 384 00:18:48,679 --> 00:18:52,919 Workspace flirting is rife, but boundaries have to be maintained 385 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,280 because it is so easy for people to just overstep them. 386 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,679 The secret for Dami is to assert her position as wife. 387 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,120 Organize the diary. 388 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,760 Make sure there's time for family events. 389 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,560 Dami needs to be number one, 390 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,720 and the work wife is under Dami and Jermaine together. 391 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,960 ♪ Do me things that drive me crazy ♪ 392 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,360 ♪ Lover, baby ♪ 393 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,760 ♪ Cudde on top of my chest, oh ♪ 394 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,200 ♪ Whine slow, boogie down ♪ 395 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,360 ♪ If you love me Baby, you should let me 396 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,440 ♪ Whine slow, do me now ♪ 397 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,360 ♪ Touch your hair now Shoulders, knees and toes ♪ 398 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,240 ♪ Whine slow, boogie down ♪ 399 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,360 [birds chirping] 400 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,080 [Yasmin] We need to start with how much this debt is, where it is, 401 00:19:36,159 --> 00:19:38,280 and what needs to be cleared first. 402 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:42,320 -How much are you spending a month? -Probably more than what I'm paying back. 403 00:19:42,399 --> 00:19:44,720 I think I need to have the credit cards. 404 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,399 I'm willing to make it work, but up to a certain extent. 405 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,360 I'm not gonna allow you to treat me like a child. 406 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,000 "Give me your card." You're not my mum. 407 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,960 How do I know you're not gonna spend on them? 408 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,159 -I'm telling you I'm not. -My head is hurting. 409 00:19:57,679 --> 00:20:00,679 ♪ Where we came from nothing All we want is to shine ♪ 410 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,679 ♪ When it's all or nothing Put it all on the line ♪ 411 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,600 ♪ Put it all on the line ♪ 412 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,200 ♪ Put it all on the line ♪ 413 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,840 [song ends] 414 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,360 [Karen] So can I check in? 415 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,720 How have things been since the last session? 416 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,600 There was a bit of a revelation from you, Maria, 417 00:20:26,679 --> 00:20:29,720 about sending money to your family. 418 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,440 I have apologized, 419 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,320 but I think it's just a matter of time for him to come to terms with it. 420 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,800 I don't know if he ever will, but… 421 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,320 Viktor, how are you feeling? 422 00:20:40,399 --> 00:20:44,640 It might look small, but I think the principle here is… is big. 423 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,080 The fact that she would hide something like this from me. 424 00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:51,560 It's symbolic of the difficulty you have as a couple. 425 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,360 The schism between you and your family 426 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,520 and this family, you two. 427 00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:58,679 [Viktor] Yeah. Her sister came over. 428 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,720 She didn't say anything different than… than her opinion. 429 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,960 You don't like the fact that I'm sending my parents money just to send them money. 430 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,200 Your, like, monthly subscription to be sending them 10% of what she makes. 431 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,880 -Monthly subscription, wow. -[Viktor] Well, that's what it's giving. 432 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,080 You've been with Maria for seven years 433 00:21:15,159 --> 00:21:18,440 and still not committed to her. 434 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,480 [tense music plays] 435 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,159 My sister shared her opinions about our relationship to Viktor. 436 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,800 What was that like for you, Viktor? 437 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,560 I felt like I was being tag-teamed, like there was two people against me. 438 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,720 Until she steps up for this relationship-- 439 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,040 This relationship, but unmarried? 440 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,440 Yeah. 441 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,240 Because everything would change if you were to get married. 442 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,840 -Yeah. -Sounds like everyone would be pleased. 443 00:21:43,919 --> 00:21:44,800 -Sure. -[Karen] Yes. 444 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,760 But that's not a reason for me to do it. 445 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:48,800 You wanted me to open up? 446 00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:52,880 This is how it feels. No one's looking in this situation through my lenses. 447 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,159 What do you think about that, Maria? 448 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,280 Viktor's always said he really thought that, 449 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,320 my family would be very, like, inviting and open to him. 450 00:22:00,399 --> 00:22:03,280 So when he didn't receive that treatment, it's kind of like… 451 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:04,280 [snaps fingers] 452 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:05,600 He's just cutting them off. 453 00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:07,399 They're having their family time. I'm around. 454 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,679 And I'm just her boyfriend and that's it. So I don't feel… 455 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,919 I don't feel seen. I don't feel acknowledged almost. 456 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,760 -What is it that you want from them? -I wanna feel respected. 457 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,399 Tell me, does this play into the cultural and religious aspects of the family? 458 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,919 It does, yeah. In Nigerian culture, 459 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,919 the elders, they're on top, and you have the younger people. 460 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,080 The younger people are the ones that are meant to make the effort. 461 00:22:32,159 --> 00:22:35,560 She told me the first time we were about to, like, go to her house, 462 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,679 it's very important that you kneel down to your elders. 463 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,040 Put your forehead to the ground. And I'm like-- 464 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:45,040 I was like, if you wanna earn respect from my parents, you have to prostrate. 465 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:46,280 And he didn't do it. 466 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,560 And now he also wants to get the respect from them. 467 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,280 What does it actually mean when somebody kneels down? 468 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,280 What does it mean for the family? 469 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:56,679 It's greeting someone and showing that you respect them 470 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,640 in the highest level in our culture, pretty much. 471 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,080 Okay, so you're respecting their wisdom… 472 00:23:01,159 --> 00:23:03,200 -Exactly, yeah. -…their age, their experien-- 473 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,560 -You're nodding your head? -No, 'cause you earn respect. 474 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,919 You don't give respect 'cause someone's older than you. 475 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,880 But they have earned it in terms of their life. 476 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,600 But not in front of me. I don't know them. 477 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,480 -But you know her. -That's what I'm saying. We're all equal. 478 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,600 If I don't know you, I'm not gonna give you respect 'cause you're older. 479 00:23:17,679 --> 00:23:21,159 You need to show your family that, you know what I mean, we come first. 480 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,760 So you think all this time I haven't seen them for months, 481 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,320 you still believe that I'm putting them first? 482 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:30,960 [Karen] Is that what you want, 483 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,439 Maria on side with you and your couple first and foremost? 484 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,640 How will that leave Maria and her relationship with her family? 485 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,159 -Well-- -It's really gone to shit, so… 486 00:23:45,399 --> 00:23:47,520 My relationship with my family has changed a lot 487 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,159 since this whole situation with Viktor. 488 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,399 And that's just simply because if I go to see my family, 489 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,600 Viktor will see it as betrayal. 490 00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:58,720 So the fact that this happened is just sad 491 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,960 because we used to spend a lot of time together. 492 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,760 [Karen] I think I wanna do an exercise here. 493 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,080 "When I feel disrespected, what helps you?" 494 00:24:08,919 --> 00:24:10,240 Positive thoughts. 495 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,760 -Focus on the goal, focus on the dream. -[Karen] Is that what you do? 496 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,320 Yeah, I just-- I've learned just to-- I've learned to block these stuff, 497 00:24:17,399 --> 00:24:19,240 and they just… Doof, doof. 498 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,200 Do you know that? 499 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,399 -Yeah, he uses that to fuel himself, yeah. -It's a fuel, yeah. 500 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,120 -Thank you. That is a fuel. -He uses that to fuel himself. 501 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,840 -Hatred. -"I'm gonna show you one day." 502 00:24:27,919 --> 00:24:31,040 Yeah, disrespect, I'll show you one day. That's fuel for everything, yeah. 503 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,560 -When did you start doing that? -Yeah, very young age, yeah. 504 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:36,679 Why? 505 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,840 I think it comes from my childhood. I was a bit misunderstood. 506 00:24:41,919 --> 00:24:44,919 I didn't really have anyone in my corner growing up. 507 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,800 My mum and dad got divorced. 508 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,520 It was always me against my sisters when it came to, like-- 509 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,560 From my family, from my parents. 510 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,080 I grew up a little bit lonely, I think. 511 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:56,919 I had to preserve myself. 512 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,240 -I had to, like, save myself in a way. -[Karen] Defend? 513 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,600 -Yeah, I had to defend myself somehow. -Yeah. 514 00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:03,000 Survival instinct. 515 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,800 -Yeah. -[Karen] Yes. 516 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,520 [melancholy music plays] 517 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,520 -You knew that? -Yeah. It's sad. 518 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,000 That's what the defense is about though, isn't it? 519 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,000 -To cover it up. -Mmm. 520 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,600 -You have to. [chuckles] -Oh, bless you. 521 00:25:18,679 --> 00:25:20,560 You cannot show it, especially as a… 522 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,800 Can you not show it here with Maria? 523 00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:24,840 -[Maria] No. -No. 524 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,600 This is the person that means the world to you. 525 00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:32,640 How come you're not talking about this, your vulnerability, 526 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,919 your… That softness, that fragility? 527 00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:38,880 [Viktor] I have to be the strong one. I'm the head. I'm the leader. 528 00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:43,880 Isn't the beauty of you two that actually you're both in it together? 529 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,480 Isn't that what you want? 530 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,080 Haven't you chosen somebody who's equally strong? 531 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,040 Yeah. However, I… I don't know. 532 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,240 I don't think it'd be beneficial for us and me as a head, as a leader 533 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,399 if I show vulnerability. 534 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,640 I'll be more respected if I don't. If anything, I'll be-- 535 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,800 Maybe not within an intimate relationship like this. 536 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,760 Maybe the vulnerability is where it really is. 537 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,520 That's where you get the respect. 538 00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:09,520 -Just a thought. -Mm-hmm. 539 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:16,600 Okay, when you feel disrespected, what would help you? 540 00:26:17,199 --> 00:26:21,480 -So I'm very big on writing poems. -Do you share it with Viktor? 541 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,600 -No. [laughs] -She doesn't let me. 542 00:26:23,679 --> 00:26:25,960 -I've asked so many times. -I don't let him read my poems. 543 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,800 She doesn't want me to. I don't know why. 544 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,399 -They're too deep. [laughs nervously] -Okay. I've got a bit of homework. 545 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,560 No! 546 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,439 [Karen] I've got a bit of homework. 547 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,960 -One poem. -[laughs] 548 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,560 -Okay. -[Karen] He reads. 549 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,560 -Fine. -And don't filter. 550 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,280 One poem you're allowing him to read. 551 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:44,840 -Okay. -Thanks, guys. 552 00:26:44,919 --> 00:26:49,880 [upbeat song plays] 553 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,280 We as a species, we have to protect ourselves. 554 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,919 Viktor has defensive strategies from very early on, 555 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:00,800 and for him to drop it is hard. 556 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,679 ♪ Don't make me lose control ♪ 557 00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:05,199 ♪ Ooh ♪ 558 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,000 [Karen] There are similarities between Mike and Viktor. 559 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,000 They're both trying to be the men they think they should be, 560 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,840 not allowing themselves to show their emotions, 561 00:27:14,919 --> 00:27:18,320 to show their vulnerability, their true selves. 562 00:27:18,399 --> 00:27:21,240 They both have authentic male energy, 563 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,960 a strength, a sensitivity, 564 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,439 but they have difficulty tapping into all of it. 565 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,040 [song ends] 566 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,280 -[Karen] Hi Michael, Yasmin. Welcome back. -[Mike] How you doing? 567 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,000 [Karen] Can we recap a little bit of the last session? 568 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,560 Because it felt quite intense. 569 00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:37,800 I've been made redundant. 570 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,320 [inhales] 571 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,480 And, um, it's been two months. 572 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,080 I can't even look at you right now. I can't. 573 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,640 I was in disbelief. 574 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,960 I felt like we left with more problems than we came with. 575 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,199 It's been a bit difficult for me to unpack all of that 576 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:02,040 and try and keep in mind a clear vision of where we're going. 577 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:03,280 Thank you. 578 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,960 Mike, for you? 579 00:28:05,439 --> 00:28:07,439 I know I've obviously used this opportunity 580 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,120 to speak about the problems that I've got on my mind. 581 00:28:10,199 --> 00:28:14,080 But I don't want this to be a session where it's all about crucifying me. 582 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,159 In between the sessions, what's gone on between you? 583 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,560 Have you discussed this? 584 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,880 Since then, we've spoke about my finances. 585 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,520 I felt really uncomfortable, like I'm being treated like a child. 586 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,120 It doesn't make me feel nice at all. 587 00:28:26,199 --> 00:28:29,280 [Yasmin] There's an element of doubt now in whatever he's saying to me. 588 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,159 Can you hear that? Can you hear that the trust is broken? 589 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Yeah. 590 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,720 Now, homework. 591 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,280 You wrote down things that you find hard to say to each other. 592 00:28:39,959 --> 00:28:41,040 -Yeah. -[Karen] Yeah? 593 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,720 Do you wanna sit facing each other while we do this little exercise? 594 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,360 Yasmin, you lead. 595 00:28:47,439 --> 00:28:52,320 So I need you to be consistent with your support around day-to-day life, 596 00:28:52,399 --> 00:28:54,679 and not just when I'm finding it hard. 597 00:28:57,639 --> 00:28:58,520 [sighs] 598 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,000 It's the day-to-day running of the house. 599 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,000 -Is this changing now you're not working? -No, it hasn't changed at all. 600 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,199 I'm using most of my mental capacity to try and find a new job. 601 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,800 And I'm using my mental capacity to work all day, 602 00:29:11,879 --> 00:29:14,600 manage our son before I get to work. 603 00:29:14,679 --> 00:29:15,639 So all day-- 604 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,879 Doing full-time mum when I get home from work. 605 00:29:17,959 --> 00:29:20,520 That's what I'm talking about. It doesn't matter what I say, 606 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:21,679 she's always doing more. 607 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,280 You seem to feel resentful about that, Michael. 608 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,679 Yeah. Maybe there is a little bit of resentment. 609 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,560 But what's the resentment about? 610 00:29:28,639 --> 00:29:30,679 [Mike] For example, when I walk through the door, 611 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,560 it's not, "Hello, babe. I understand you're tired, but can you help me?" 612 00:29:33,639 --> 00:29:35,360 "Here's a kiss and a hug." 613 00:29:35,439 --> 00:29:38,639 It's just straight, "Get into work now. Can you help me with this?" 614 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,800 "Can you make sure he's bathed, brushed his teeth, the dishes are washed." 615 00:29:41,879 --> 00:29:43,439 "'Cause I need to do something else." 616 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,600 -[Karen] What about-- -No intimacy, no affection. 617 00:29:45,679 --> 00:29:48,040 I'm running on empty. What do you want me to do with that? 618 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:50,520 Yasmin? 619 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,800 I don't even have time for myself. 620 00:29:52,879 --> 00:29:55,080 I'm exhausted and overstimulated. 621 00:29:55,159 --> 00:29:58,879 -Let's move on to your homework, Michael. -[exhales, clears throat] 622 00:29:58,959 --> 00:30:02,840 "I regret not telling Yas the whole truth about my financial situation." 623 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,879 "And obviously, telling her in this way has broken her trust." 624 00:30:06,959 --> 00:30:10,480 But there's a part of me that wants her to just take it easy a little bit. 625 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,760 Give me-- Like, give me some sort of grace. 626 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,760 I know I'm in the wrong. You know what I mean? 627 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,240 [Karen] Yeah, I hear you. 628 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,600 But part of getting her trust really is hearing her in this session 629 00:30:19,679 --> 00:30:23,040 and seeing what she might need and just hearing her exhaustion. 630 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,199 It's not a competition. It's about two people helping each other. 631 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,280 There's somehow gotta be some equality. 632 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,480 There's a system that's gotta come through this 633 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,000 to get you both on the same page around this. 634 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,000 -[Yasmin] Mm. -Yeah. 635 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:34,919 [Karen] Yasmin? 636 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,800 [breathes deeply] 637 00:30:39,159 --> 00:30:44,679 "I am fearful that your spending habits will remain the same 638 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,959 and I will always have to have a backup plan 639 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,879 when it comes to finances." 640 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,399 [Mike] I'll do my best, 641 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,040 but I don't know if you're ever gonna let go of this mistrust. 642 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,560 Your last one, Michael. 643 00:30:59,439 --> 00:31:02,439 "I do not feel as though my intimacy and affection needs 644 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,040 are being met by Yasmin." 645 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,080 Do you think there's any reason why Yasmin might be resistant to intimacy? 646 00:31:09,159 --> 00:31:11,560 You would never know what it feels like to be me, 647 00:31:11,639 --> 00:31:14,720 knowing that she doesn't feel like you're doing enough around the house 648 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,280 and then trying to get intimacy 649 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,280 or some sort of affection from your missus, 650 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,840 and she's still saying, "Nah, don't feel like it," 651 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,480 because the dishes are not washed. 652 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,520 It's probably not 'cause the dishes are not washed. 653 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,679 -But let's… let's talk to Yasmin about it. -[Mike clears throat] 654 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,560 If my time was freed up 655 00:31:30,639 --> 00:31:33,240 and I didn't feel like it was just go, go, go, go, go, 656 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:34,840 then I might be more receptive. 657 00:31:34,919 --> 00:31:36,280 [Mike] Nah, it's a losing battle. 658 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,800 So when she does come home, and I have tidied up things, 659 00:31:39,879 --> 00:31:41,919 and I have done this, and the house is spotless, 660 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,760 and then sometimes I do expect it at the end of the day, 661 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,399 she goes, "What, is this a transaction?" 662 00:31:48,919 --> 00:31:52,080 For me, I'm viewing it as like, "Okay, so you see this as a means to an end." 663 00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:53,800 -What woman-- -Sometimes, yes. 664 00:31:53,879 --> 00:31:56,600 What woman is gonna be like, "Oh, yeah, thanks for helping me." 665 00:31:56,679 --> 00:31:58,600 "I'm gonna repay you with my body"? 666 00:31:58,679 --> 00:32:00,760 -What? What century are we in? -[Karen] Hold on. 667 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,360 Let's dial back. What happened before? 668 00:32:02,439 --> 00:32:05,520 What was it like in the beginning? How has this got to this stage? 669 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,639 We've always been like cuddles, kisses, hugs, holding hands, 670 00:32:09,719 --> 00:32:12,919 but when it comes to where it's just time for us, 671 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,120 we don't have as much as we used to. 672 00:32:15,199 --> 00:32:16,159 -[Mike] Can I say-- -Yes. 673 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,679 That's the way I connect, through physical touch. 674 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,480 Through… through intimacy, through sex, through hugging, through kissing. 675 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,000 She's absolutely gorgeous, and I'm not allowed to touch it. 676 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,719 It's like having something you really want, 677 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,280 but not being able to touch it. 678 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:31,879 [clears throat] 679 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,959 I feel like this year has been one of the hardest years of my life. 680 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,600 The mix of the family, running a house, working full-time, 681 00:32:39,679 --> 00:32:42,480 and all of that is on my shoulders. 682 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,840 -I don't think it's that at all. -So, what do you think it is, Mike? 683 00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:49,040 I think it's more linked to the fact that I don't think she finds me attractive, 684 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,120 I'll be honest with you. 685 00:32:50,639 --> 00:32:53,760 -I don't know if it's because-- -When did you start feeling like that? 686 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,159 Well, more recent 687 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,240 because I've been getting affection and intimacy less and less. 688 00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,320 [tense music plays] 689 00:33:02,679 --> 00:33:04,360 Do you even find me attractive? 690 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,840 [music intensifies] 691 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,320 [music ends] 692 00:33:09,399 --> 00:33:10,800 ♪ Have mercy ♪ 693 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:17,360 ♪ Oh Lord, have mercy Mercy, mercy on me ♪ 694 00:33:20,719 --> 00:33:22,000 ♪ Have mercy ♪ 695 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:29,600 ♪ Oh Lord, have mercy Mercy, mercy on me ♪ 696 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,040 [song ends] have mercy Mercy, mercy on me ♪