♪ Your eyes on me ♪
♪ Your vision is clear ♪
"I do not feel as though my intimacy and affection needs
are being met by Yasmin."
I don't think she even finds me attractive, I'll be honest with you.
When did you start feeling like that?
More recent, because I've been getting affection and intimacy less and less.
Do you even find me attractive?
♪ Give me hope ♪
[inhales sharply]
[song ends]
[exhales]
Yasmin?
That's stupid. Of course I find you attractive.
Mm. Cool.
It's not about that. Like, at 5'2", after I gave birth,
I had no business being a size 22, in my opinion.
And I still find her attractive, by the way.
Even now, I'm not 100% confident in my body.
And body image has always been a big thing for me.
[Mike sighs]
Michael, what's your response to that?
Did I make you feel sexy?
You do tell me all the time that you think I'm beautiful,
and you think that I look good in things…
I show you that you're beautiful. I show you that you're attractive.
That's not how I feel about myself.
What's it going to take to… to help you feel confident?
Mike says he adores you.
I don't feel that can come from other people.
That's something you have to find yourself.
And I'm getting a bit of my confidence back,
but I don't-- Still don't feel like I'm that girl,
no matter how much he says it.
At the end of the day,
when my hair is thick with grease, I smell like cooking,
I haven't had a chance to have a shower, I don't wanna be touched.
I just feel like, "Oh no."
That's when I find her the most attractive, when she's at home,
messy hair, messy bun,
stain on her top with a bit of food and cooking on there.
-I genuinely find her that attractive. -Can you hear that, Yasmin?
-I believe that's his opinion. -[Karen] Okay.
I believe it, but it doesn't make me feel like,
"Okay, yeah, I wanna throw myself at you now."
I mean, what about being-- You know, being seduced?
Does that happen?
-Are you good at that? -No.
-Michael turns everything into a joke. -Michael…
It's… What?
Michael acts like a teenage boy,
tickling you or flicking you
or prodding you in some way.
-Sometimes. -And so my response is, "Go away."
Like, "What are you doing?"
Okay, so talk to me. What would be better for you?
-You know, like a bit of a cuddle. -What, a striptease?
-No. [laughs] -[Karen chuckles]
-[Mike] Let's be honest. -Let's hear this.
[Yasmin] No, but you know, a bit of a cuddle.
And sometimes I just feel like I want him to come up to me in the kitchen
and just say, "I really appreciate everything you do."
Give me a hug.
A long hug. Do you know what I mean?
-[Karen] A proper hug. -That bit of reassurance, that peace.
You know, "You're a great mum. I really appreciate what you do."
Can you hear that?
[exhales] I can.
I get it. She likes to be made to feel safe.
She wants a little bit more gentle, easygoing love,
not slapping her bum, flicking her body parts.
You both are in the same boat with the intimacy issues.
Yeah.
It's about the connection between you two.
It's about how you are living together and that the needs are not met.
Okay, let's try an exercise.
Let's see if you can touch back into that feeling of connected.
Can you face each other?
Now, I want you both to really look at each other.
See how that feels to really look at each other.
I know things have been heated.
Just take a moment for you two to actually look at each other.
Look into her eyes, Michael.
Go on, keep going. Keep looking at each other.
Look at each other.
She's got beautiful eyes, to be fair.
Breathing.
[Yasmin exhales deeply]
Okay, well done.
[sniffles, clears throat]
How are you feeling?
-I feel like-- [laughs] -Go on. I'll let you go first.
I just feel like when I'm looking at him,
I can see him for, like, who he is to me.
-[Karen] Yes. -That's where all the tension just goes.
Yeah.
Even something like that makes a difference.
You just feel like all the noise is just blocked out.
-Michael? -I feel the same.
Talk to me about that.
I feel like looking into her eyes calms everything.
-Yeah. -Like it just feels like a safe space.
-I think I need to do it more often. -I was just gonna say.
You've got a bit of a tool now, guys, to take away from this session.
-[Mike] Mmm. -You should do that. Take a break.
I've got more homework for you.
-Yay! -[Karen] Yeah?
-[chuckles] -I want you to take a few minutes…
Can I say every day?
…putting your foreheads together.
And you start breathing together.
It's another exercise that takes you both down
out of the drudgery of the day.
Once you start breathing in sync, maybe you could have a kiss.
That's not carte blanche for you, Michael, to expect,
-"Here we are. We're on." -Put my tongue in there.
[laughing]
If you can stop going around in these circles,
if you could get over all of the fears that you've got around your body
because he's really not feeling them.
-Mm. -[Karen] Okay?
Thank you, guys. Thank you very much for the session.
-See you next time. -[Yasmin] See you.
-Bye-bye. -[Yasmin] Bye.
[Mike] Bye.
Mike has convinced himself that Yasmin doesn't find him attractive,
and Yasmin has convinced herself that she's unattractive post-baby.
We have to get them now to understand that, actually,
they can be vulnerable with each other.
And maybe with that knowledge and feeling more comfortable around each other,
we can start to help them rekindle and reignite intimacy.
♪ Can't bring me down Can't bring me down ♪
♪ Can't bring me down We're going all the way up ♪
[Carmen] I literally need this wine so bad.
-Cheers. -Cheers, honey.
♪ We're going all the way up ♪
So I don't know if I told you about this therapy stuff
that me and Junior are doing.
How's it going?
I feel like it kind of, like, it became about him, which is fine.
I feel like there's things that he's, like, holding on to
that I didn't realize he was still holding on to.
It's kind of like all this resentment
that I just didn't realize was still there.
At the moment, we're either bickering or not talking.
[Carmen] Yeah.
I mean, the thing that has caused me a lot of hurt
is the way she asked me for a divorce on my birthday.
I just don't understand why you, like, hold on to things so much.
If somebody makes a mistake, even if you make a mistake, Junior,
surely that's painful to keep being reminded of it.
-It wasn't like I deliberately did that. -Yeah, of course.
I'd just had enough.
-[Jeylan] Your breaking point. -Yeah.
You know what? The therapy will be good
to help release the resentment and…
But I feel like there's still, like, so much that I wanna share.
-Mm. -[Carmen] You know.
I've got some things that I've not spoken properly about to him.
And I don't know if he's even ready
to kind of, like, talk about certain subjects, you know?
This is the time, you know, to just get it all out.
[R&B music plays]
[sighing] Yeah. Let's hope he takes me seriously for once.
♪ My man is at work When he stays till late night ♪
♪ And he make double pay though ♪
♪ I know he's rushing back home ♪
♪ Don't like to leave me alone ♪
♪ My man cheering up When he saw some exes ♪
♪ In the past when he be alone ♪
♪ I can tell his toying days are done ♪
♪ Baby boy, I know he is the one ♪
It's been a long time since you and I have been out together.
[Jermaine] Yeah.
In the spirit of homework, quality time, no kids.
[Dami] Yeah, that's nice.
You know, no one's saying, "Let's go to McDonald's!"
[laughs]
"I want a burger!"
-[gasps] Bae! What? -[whooping]
-Cheers! -To kicking out the boys.
Kicking out the boys.
♪ My man is at work When he stays till late night ♪
♪ In the past when he be alone I can tell his toying days are done ♪
♪ Baby boy, I know he is the one ♪
Yummy, yummy.
[song ends]
-[woman] So what's been going on? -[Kelvin] Right.
Honestly, that therapy session was just weird.
-[Kirsty] What happened? -Yeah.
I thought it was gonna go, "Problem, and this is how we fix it."
But it was more sort of banging on the problem,
like, you know, "You don't do this, and you haven't done this."
I feel like our relationship is falling apart.
I feel like you're not understanding that you're slacking.
And that's a big problem for me.
-Did you realize? -This is the first to my ears.
If I'm not happy, what we doing?
[Kelvin] I don't know if I wanna do another one.
-Yeah. -[Kirsty] Oh, man.
-It was a lot. Yeah. -[Kirsty] That's a shame.
Like, as your big sister, I feel like I just want the best for you.
Like, I've seen you grow, grind,
and you deserve to have someone that's understanding,
that's on your level.
And she has great qualities, don't get me wrong,
but she has to compromise, you know?
What hurts me the most is, obviously, Debbie knows the history.
You know the history, you know, more than anyone, both of us.
This being Mummy's restaurant, she knows it's deep-rooted.
-Have you told her about the therapy? -No. Shall I call her?
Yeah, man, see what she has to say 'cause I feel like her input might help.
-[line ringing] -She's gonna have a lot to say.
[Kelvin] Mummy?
-[Kelvin's mom] Yes? -How are you? Okay?
[Kelvin's mom] I'm not so bad. What's up?
I'm sitting here with Kirsty. We're just talking, um…
-[Kelvin's mom] Hi. -[both laugh]
[Kelvin] So basically, Debbie took me on, like, therapy.
[Kelvin's mom] Kelvin, I'm old school. I don't believe in that.
-But the two of you sitting and talking… -Literally, I wish we did.
We didn't speak.
-[Kelvin's mom] You didn't get anywhere? -No, we spoke.
But literally, the therapy session, it sort of all came out.
Like, she just was saying stuff I'd never heard before, you know.
[Kelvin's mom] Okay.
She feels that I'm just too busy doing the business,
and, you know, she feels that the relationship's
not sort of going in the direction that it used to.
[Kelvin's mom] Yeah, but does Debbie want you to, you know, excel?
To do something for yourself in life?
She has to… She has to bear with you. You know? So she needs to understand.
-[Kirsty] Can I ask you a question? -[Kelvin's mom] Yes.
Do you feel like Debbie's the one for Kelvin?
[Kelvin's mom] No.
["Easy To Fall Out Of Love" by Marz Fay plays]
♪ I don't know what hurts me… ♪
I'm too young for all of this shit.
♪ Heartbreak or the truth ♪
♪ Why's it so easy To fall out of love with me? ♪
[Debbie] Since our last therapy session,
me and Kelvin haven't really been in the best place.
We haven't really been speaking, we haven't really seen each other.
So I just feel a bit numb today.
♪ But I still hope ♪
[Debbie] I came on my own, and if he wants to come, then he can.
Does he have all the time in the world? No.
But if he wanted to make our relationship work,
he would turn up.
It's left to him really.
I know Kelvin. I've known him for so long,
so I do believe that he doesn't want to lose me.
But I just don't know if he's doing enough to keep me.
♪ Is it, it, it, is it love? ♪
[song ends]
-[Karen] Hello, Debbie. -[Debbie] Hello.
Come on in.
Thank you.
[Karen] Sit down.
-Where's Kelvin? -He should be here shortly.
Has he been in touch with you?
We haven't spoken as much since our last session.
He is coming to the session?
If I'm important, I think he will come to this session.
He knows it means a lot to me, so I think he should be here shortly.
How's it been?
It's been a bit weird.
Like, very different
from what I'm used to.
-Okay. Do you wanna say more? -[inhales] He's been quite cold since…
[Karen] Hi.
-Hello, Kelvin. -How are you?
-I'm good. -[Kelvin] Sorry I'm late.
-How are you? -I'm good. You?
Tired.
-Okay. -Welcome back.
-Thank you. -Are you okay, Kelvin?
If I'm being honest, I wasn't gonna come.
Oh.
-[Kelvin] Yeah. -The truth is coming out.
I wasn't gonna come.
Because?
-[Debbie] Mm. -Last time was awkward.
Okay. Talk to me about that. I… I wanna get to know how you felt.
[Kelvin] Um…
I think where it was the first time
I was hearing a lot of the stuff Debbie had to say.
-That obviously took me aback. -[Karen] Yes.
And I just felt, I don't think I'm supposed to be here, you know?
Maybe this conversation would be better without me.
-No. -[Kelvin] Then I thought, "You know what?"
I know how it'd make you feel if I didn't come.
The work couldn't be done. There's a commitment to making an effort.
How do you feel now?
'Cause you've been quite cold towards me since last therapy.
-I think anyone would be quite-- -Cold?
-Yeah. -Distant?
Taken aback.
So you're making the situation worse
because you're more distant,
instead of improving the things that I opened up about.
I would say I'm processing.
-Okay. -It's a lot.
How did you feel without the contact?
Just disappointed.
You've just kind of like abandoned our relationship even more.
Debbie, some people need longer time to process.
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -[Karen] I understand how you feel.
But from what Kelvin says, actually it was all quite shocking
and he needed to take himself away.
I understand that.
I just feel like you should've been available to me a bit more.
Yeah.
-Do you agree with that? -Yeah. Completely.
But is that your default mode? You withdraw in order to process?
Um, just in that instance, I don't think I would've had anything productive to say.
[Karen] Okay.
I confided in my mum and my sister.
We spoke briefly about, um, the situation.
So can we hear a bit more about, um, the conversations you might've had?
-Yeah. -You all right with that, Debbie?
-Go on. -[chuckles softly]
Yeah, I spoke to my sister.
She sort of told me plain and simple that
as much as she understands where Debbie's coming from,
it's sort of something that Debbie has to kind of adapt to for now.
Debbie?
To say I have to adapt to Kelvin disappointing me,
not being reliable,
not communicating with me properly, not sticking to his words…
-Yeah. -I just, I-- I can't-- I can't do that.
I don't think the word "adapt" is the right one to use.
-It's like adapt to-- -Yeah.
I think, more, um, compromise.
No.
No? What--
No.
[Karen] Okay.
And what about your mum?
What were her words to you?
She was, yeah, more along the same, like, you know,
she understands the magnitude of what I'm dealing with more than anyone,
so she was very much understanding to the sort of distancing yourself.
-Your mum's been there. She's lived it. -She's been there. She understood it.
Yeah, so she understands.
Anything else your mum said, or was that it?
Um…
Yeah, nothing… nothing too crazy.
[Karen] So compromise.
Are you considering some sort of compromise?
'Cause the onus at the moment is on Debbie to compromise.
[Kelvin] I think the more I think about
the sort of responsibility and pressure that I've been feeling,
something has to give, you have to sacrifice, you know.
So are you saying that it is the relationship
that you're willing to sacrifice?
I'd say I'm willing to sacrifice a lot,
but not particularly the relationship.
I'm willing to reassure you that it will get better,
but just let me figure this out.
[Debbie] Mm.
What are you hearing, Debbie?
I feel like the way you're communicating with me is like,
"This is my priorities right now."
"I can't do anything about it. This is just how it is."
-You still are my priority. -No, I'm not.
You prioritize what you wanna prioritize.
[Karen] I find myself thinking,
you know, this is not personal to you at all,
but do you feel that a relationship is holding you back?
-Mm. That's a good question. -[Karen] This is not personal to you.
It's about the concept of a relationship in your life currently.
No. Because it also benefits as well.
[Kelvin exhales]
Wow.
Is the relationship holding you back?
From what?
From what I want,
from what I expect from a partner.
Yeah.
I just don't feel 100% confident
that when I am ready to make decisions,
maybe, like, have kids or get married,
I feel like Kelvin will still disappoint me,
be saying, "Oh, Debbie, I just don't think it's the right time."
I just want a future plan that aligns together.
But I feel like he might not be sure what he will really want,
so I think he has to figure that out.
-[Karen] What do you think, Kelvin? -I'd hope I'd have more time by then.
But I feel like there's no work-life balance.
But your mum put everything on hold for the business,
so that's your model really.
I don't see any other way.
Can I just ask, did your mum and dad stay together?
No.
So ultimately, she ended up without a relationship.
-Yeah. -[Karen] That's the model.
-Yeah. -[Karen] Is that where you want to go?
Or do you see that as a mistake for your mum?
I see it as a mistake.
But you are at the risk of losing something
that was special
and is special, I believe.
Yeah.
Maybe I do need just to, like, take you out, do-- I'm--
I'm structuring an idea, but I can't just jump into it.
-No, no. -[Kelvin] That is the…
-How does that feel to hear? -Okay.
I feel like it can't just be an idea though.
This has to be something that's like,
"Okay, I'm gonna prioritize Debbie, compromise."
"How's it-- How are we gonna balance this with the business?"
Yeah.
Can you two actually carve out some time
to go away from the restaurants…
Yeah.
…between now and the next session? Just the two of you.
Taking yourselves out of what's usual…
-Yeah. -…and really communicating.
So I'm gonna leave that with you.
But maybe it's an opportunity to have some fun.
I'm good at planning stuff.
-Gotta see it through. -Yeah.
[chuckles softly]
Thank you very much.
Thank you both. And we'll meet again.
-Bye-bye. -Bye.
♪ Can we get a rewind, rewind? ♪
♪ To the good time, good time ♪
[Debbie] I don't wanna be negative,
but it'll be interesting to see if Kelvin can commit.
I don't think he understands that I'm really willing to walk away.
I think he thinks it's not that serious, like, he'll be able to deal with it.
If I walk away, I don't go back.
Once I'm done, I'm done.
♪ Can we get a rewind, rewind? ♪
♪ To the good time ♪
Therapy is a highly valuable space for a couple,
but in order to make anything work,
they have to do the work outside the therapy room as well.
♪ Rewind, rewind ♪
[Karen] It's not enough just working with the therapist.
All of this a couple need to talk about.
You have to put your head and breathe.
I feel like I'm going cross-eyed.
You're meant to kiss me.
-[chuckles] -[Yasmin chuckles] You're so dumb.
Hey!
I feel like I haven't kissed you in years. I feel like a teenager.
-Like it was my first kiss or something. -[laughs]
[Karen] Both parts of a couple have to make time to be present.
If they don't carve out that time,
they start to live parallel lives.
I talk about a couple deal,
where people sit down and they work out between them
what are their hopes, aspirations, ambitions.
Whose career takes the hit when the baby comes along?
Does it matter who's the major earner?
All of these questions should be addressed
so couples have an understanding on which to go forward from.
Dami and Jermaine need to renegotiate their couple deal.
Dami is in a very vulnerable place.
She's just given birth to her second child.
Jermaine is rising, flying high,
and she's not sure where she is in the relationship.
So Dami has to think about
not just what does Jermaine want of her, but what does she want next?
Where does she want to go in her life?
[song ends]
-Hello, Dami. Hello, Jermaine. -Hi, Karen.
Hi. How are you doing?
I'm well, thank you.
-Welcome back. -Thank you.
What happened with the homework? Tell me about the homework.
Um, so we went to a vineyard.
-Lovely. -The homework was fun.
It was fun homework. Yeah, we put my phone away,
and I was present.
How did it feel?
Yeah, it was… It was nice to spend time, and…
I guess I haven't looked at Dami properly in a long time, so we--
Yeah, we had a nice-- We connected. It was-- It was nice.
And we both agreed that we needed to… we needed to do it more often.
More often. Yeah.
To kind of feel that emotional connection.
And, um, a sense of intimacy.
-100%. -For sure. For sure.
Did that feel like it came back pretty quickly?
-Yeah, 100%, I'd say. -Yeah.
Like I felt like I wanted to be intimate,
which I never, ever feel, to be honest. [laughs]
And did it get you thinking about this sleeping in separate rooms
or sleeping in the same room? Did it trigger thoughts around that?
Yeah, I think we had a few conversations about it this week.
Um, sort of how we're gonna move the kids around and sort everything out.
But yeah, we gave it a go.
He was definitely visiting more often, so…
-[laughing] -[Karen] That's a result.
Are you ever gonna leave this room, or are you gonna keep popping in?
[Karen] That's a result.
-[Dami] Yeah. -Yeah.
Did that feel good?
Yeah, it was nice. It was nice to feel wanted again,
and it was nice to be desired.
Since the last session, I've tried to kind of tone things down with work
and try and delegate a bit more, so I feel like it's definitely helped.
It's those little steps, isn't it? It doesn't have to be huge.
It just needs to be small, consistent steps.
-For sure. -100%.
-For sure. -So far you've done really well.
-Thank you. -Yeah, we're trying.
-We're trying. -We're trying to move--
We want our relationship to work, you know.
And if you have the right person, you have to work on issues together.
It's all about teamwork and wanting the same thing.
-Mm-hmm. -[Dami] Um…
It's just I would like
to go back to work eventually.
Like I can't just be your wife all day.
-You know. -Well, you could.
-[Karen laughs] -[Jermaine] You really could.
I'm ready to kind of be Dami again.
-Yeah. -[Dami] You know?
And become the woman that I was before.
I mean, that is the Dami you fell in love with.
-Right. -It is.
But I want a daughter.
I've wanted a daughter since my mum told me she wasn't gonna have another kid.
-You didn't have a sister. -[Jermaine] I come from a house of boys.
"You're not gonna get one of those. Wait until your turn."
So I've always wanted to have a daughter.
Um, and I just feel like
we need to discuss
how that's gonna fit into the timeline.
[Karen] That's honest.
How do you hear that?
Like, I hear it and I get it, but…
[inhales, sighs] Karen…
It's a bit of a sore and painful subject, you know, um…
He says he wants a daughter, he wants a daughter,
and it hurts me sometimes because
we've had a daughter,
and we lost her.
It's painful
'cause it just reminds me
of what we've been through as a couple and as a family.
That must've been so hard.
Yeah.
-[Jermaine sighs] -I don't know how to word this, but…
we both carry a gene.
-The sickle cell gene. -[Dami] A sickle cell gene.
Yeah.
And it's something that runs in families
of like African and Indian heritage,
so that means we've got 25% chance
of passing on this gene onto our child.
Okay.
It's not just life-changing, it alters everything.
It's random chronic illnesses, um,
extreme pain.
It just hinders your quality of life.
You can have a test called a CVS test.
For us, we-- I don't know what it was,
but we were just positive. We ha--
We thought this was gonna be amazing. We're having a daughter.
We're so excited.
After doing it the first time and it had been clear.
Our first boy-- We did the test with our first boy--
-And it'd been fine. -[Dami] And he'd been fine.
So we were on this high, like, "We're untouchable. We're unstoppable."
I knew it was gonna be a girl.
I had the feeling that my daughter's on her way kind of thing.
And then to get that call…
Um, my world just became dark
and black,
and I was in disbelief.
[melancholy music plays]
We kinda made the conscious decision
that, you know, we weren't going to bring in…
uh, bring a child into the world that has this disease.
Yeah.
It was the hardest decision
and the hardest choice of our lives.
-[Jermaine] Mm-hmm. -I can imagine that.
Mm.
I have never, ever spoken
about losing our baby to sickle cell
to anyone other than family.
So just telling Karen about that
and letting her see a part of me that I've hidden,
I feel… [exhales]
Like, I feel sad.
I feel sad.
[producer] It's okay, my darling. You just take your time.
[crying]
[producer] It's okay.
Oh, God. [sniffles]
[breathes deeply]
Um… Yeah, it was tough.
And for you?
-It's… It's unimaginable. -[Karen] Yeah.
Like, every time I think about it, I'm always like,
"Did I do the right thing,"
or "Did we make the right decision?"
Like, "What does God think?"
"I've sent one of his kids back to him."
Like, I've never spoken so much about it. I think it's just a lot.
It's really sad.
[music ends] ad.