1 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,560 ♪ Your eyes on me ♪ 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,280 ♪ Your vision is clear ♪ 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,720 "I do not feel as though my intimacy and affection needs 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,160 are being met by Yasmin." 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,520 I don't think she even finds me attractive, I'll be honest with you. 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,639 When did you start feeling like that? 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,680 More recent, because I've been getting affection and intimacy less and less. 8 00:00:35,879 --> 00:00:37,520 Do you even find me attractive? 9 00:00:38,879 --> 00:00:40,559 ♪ Give me hope ♪ 10 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:44,040 ♪ Give me hope ♪ 11 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,360 ♪ Give me hope ♪ 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:52,440 [inhales sharply] 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:55,400 [song ends] 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:56,320 [exhales] 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,160 Yasmin? 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,480 That's stupid. Of course I find you attractive. 17 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:07,399 Mm. Cool. 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,960 It's not about that. Like, at 5'2", after I gave birth, 19 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,000 I had no business being a size 22, in my opinion. 20 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,320 And I still find her attractive, by the way. 21 00:01:20,399 --> 00:01:23,720 Even now, I'm not 100% confident in my body. 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,040 And body image has always been a big thing for me. 23 00:01:27,119 --> 00:01:27,960 [Mike sighs] 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,160 Michael, what's your response to that? 25 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:33,520 Did I make you feel sexy? 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,920 You do tell me all the time that you think I'm beautiful, 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,800 and you think that I look good in things… 28 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,000 I show you that you're beautiful. I show you that you're attractive. 29 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,759 That's not how I feel about myself. 30 00:01:42,839 --> 00:01:46,000 What's it going to take to… to help you feel confident? 31 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,080 Mike says he adores you. 32 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,160 I don't feel that can come from other people. 33 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,160 That's something you have to find yourself. 34 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,520 And I'm getting a bit of my confidence back, 35 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,559 but I don't-- Still don't feel like I'm that girl, 36 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,240 no matter how much he says it. 37 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,160 At the end of the day, 38 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,360 when my hair is thick with grease, I smell like cooking, 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,160 I haven't had a chance to have a shower, I don't wanna be touched. 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,639 I just feel like, "Oh no." 41 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,519 That's when I find her the most attractive, when she's at home, 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,600 messy hair, messy bun, 43 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,519 stain on her top with a bit of food and cooking on there. 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,560 -I genuinely find her that attractive. -Can you hear that, Yasmin? 45 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:22,239 -I believe that's his opinion. -[Karen] Okay. 46 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,360 I believe it, but it doesn't make me feel like, 47 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,040 "Okay, yeah, I wanna throw myself at you now." 48 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,480 I mean, what about being-- You know, being seduced? 49 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Does that happen? 50 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:34,600 -Are you good at that? -No. 51 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,760 -Michael turns everything into a joke. -Michael… 52 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:37,880 It's… What? 53 00:02:37,959 --> 00:02:40,480 Michael acts like a teenage boy, 54 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,360 tickling you or flicking you 55 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,400 or prodding you in some way. 56 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,120 -Sometimes. -And so my response is, "Go away." 57 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:50,320 Like, "What are you doing?" 58 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,799 Okay, so talk to me. What would be better for you? 59 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,880 -You know, like a bit of a cuddle. -What, a striptease? 60 00:02:55,959 --> 00:02:58,120 -No. [laughs] -[Karen chuckles] 61 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,959 -[Mike] Let's be honest. -Let's hear this. 62 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,280 [Yasmin] No, but you know, a bit of a cuddle. 63 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,720 And sometimes I just feel like I want him to come up to me in the kitchen 64 00:03:06,799 --> 00:03:09,959 and just say, "I really appreciate everything you do." 65 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,519 Give me a hug. 66 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,640 A long hug. Do you know what I mean? 67 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,160 -[Karen] A proper hug. -That bit of reassurance, that peace. 68 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,760 You know, "You're a great mum. I really appreciate what you do." 69 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,080 Can you hear that? 70 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,720 [exhales] I can. 71 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,320 I get it. She likes to be made to feel safe. 72 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,600 She wants a little bit more gentle, easygoing love, 73 00:03:31,679 --> 00:03:35,360 not slapping her bum, flicking her body parts. 74 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,799 You both are in the same boat with the intimacy issues. 75 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,079 Yeah. 76 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,079 It's about the connection between you two. 77 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,399 It's about how you are living together and that the needs are not met. 78 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,720 Okay, let's try an exercise. 79 00:03:51,799 --> 00:03:54,880 Let's see if you can touch back into that feeling of connected. 80 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:56,959 Can you face each other? 81 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,239 Now, I want you both to really look at each other. 82 00:04:06,959 --> 00:04:09,480 See how that feels to really look at each other. 83 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,280 I know things have been heated. 84 00:04:12,359 --> 00:04:15,959 Just take a moment for you two to actually look at each other. 85 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,200 Look into her eyes, Michael. 86 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,479 Go on, keep going. Keep looking at each other. 87 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:29,960 Look at each other. 88 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,320 She's got beautiful eyes, to be fair. 89 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:38,120 Breathing. 90 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,680 [Yasmin exhales deeply] 91 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:43,000 Okay, well done. 92 00:04:46,599 --> 00:04:48,320 [sniffles, clears throat] 93 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,800 How are you feeling? 94 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:54,080 -I feel like-- [laughs] -Go on. I'll let you go first. 95 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,520 I just feel like when I'm looking at him, 96 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,000 I can see him for, like, who he is to me. 97 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,320 -[Karen] Yes. -That's where all the tension just goes. 98 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:03,400 Yeah. 99 00:05:03,479 --> 00:05:05,640 Even something like that makes a difference. 100 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,400 You just feel like all the noise is just blocked out. 101 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,080 -Michael? -I feel the same. 102 00:05:11,599 --> 00:05:12,520 Talk to me about that. 103 00:05:12,599 --> 00:05:16,720 I feel like looking into her eyes calms everything. 104 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,039 -Yeah. -Like it just feels like a safe space. 105 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,599 -I think I need to do it more often. -I was just gonna say. 106 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,479 You've got a bit of a tool now, guys, to take away from this session. 107 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,640 -[Mike] Mmm. -You should do that. Take a break. 108 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:30,840 I've got more homework for you. 109 00:05:30,919 --> 00:05:32,760 -Yay! -[Karen] Yeah? 110 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,720 -[chuckles] -I want you to take a few minutes… 111 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:37,359 Can I say every day? 112 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,280 …putting your foreheads together. 113 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,560 And you start breathing together. 114 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,120 It's another exercise that takes you both down 115 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,840 out of the drudgery of the day. 116 00:05:46,919 --> 00:05:49,800 Once you start breathing in sync, maybe you could have a kiss. 117 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,760 That's not carte blanche for you, Michael, to expect, 118 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,840 -"Here we are. We're on." -Put my tongue in there. 119 00:05:55,919 --> 00:05:57,599 [laughing] 120 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,120 If you can stop going around in these circles, 121 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,880 if you could get over all of the fears that you've got around your body 122 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,120 because he's really not feeling them. 123 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:08,599 -Mm. -[Karen] Okay? 124 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,320 Thank you, guys. Thank you very much for the session. 125 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,039 -See you next time. -[Yasmin] See you. 126 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:14,479 -Bye-bye. -[Yasmin] Bye. 127 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:15,599 [Mike] Bye. 128 00:06:18,599 --> 00:06:22,320 Mike has convinced himself that Yasmin doesn't find him attractive, 129 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:27,760 and Yasmin has convinced herself that she's unattractive post-baby. 130 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:30,760 We have to get them now to understand that, actually, 131 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:32,680 they can be vulnerable with each other. 132 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,599 And maybe with that knowledge and feeling more comfortable around each other, 133 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,000 we can start to help them rekindle and reignite intimacy. 134 00:06:41,919 --> 00:06:44,720 ♪ Can't bring me down Can't bring me down ♪ 135 00:06:44,799 --> 00:06:48,000 ♪ Can't bring me down We're going all the way up ♪ 136 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,039 [Carmen] I literally need this wine so bad. 137 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,599 -Cheers. -Cheers, honey. 138 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,160 ♪ We're going all the way up ♪ 139 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,440 So I don't know if I told you about this therapy stuff 140 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,880 that me and Junior are doing. 141 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,160 How's it going? 142 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,240 I feel like it kind of, like, it became about him, which is fine. 143 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:08,880 I feel like there's things that he's, like, holding on to 144 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,960 that I didn't realize he was still holding on to. 145 00:07:12,039 --> 00:07:14,599 It's kind of like all this resentment 146 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,799 that I just didn't realize was still there. 147 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,520 At the moment, we're either bickering or not talking. 148 00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:20,560 [Carmen] Yeah. 149 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,960 I mean, the thing that has caused me a lot of hurt 150 00:07:23,039 --> 00:07:27,080 is the way she asked me for a divorce on my birthday. 151 00:07:27,159 --> 00:07:32,280 I just don't understand why you, like, hold on to things so much. 152 00:07:32,359 --> 00:07:35,000 If somebody makes a mistake, even if you make a mistake, Junior, 153 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,680 surely that's painful to keep being reminded of it. 154 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,680 -It wasn't like I deliberately did that. -Yeah, of course. 155 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:43,760 I'd just had enough. 156 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,320 -[Jeylan] Your breaking point. -Yeah. 157 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,120 You know what? The therapy will be good 158 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,640 to help release the resentment and… 159 00:07:49,719 --> 00:07:53,479 But I feel like there's still, like, so much that I wanna share. 160 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:54,680 -Mm. -[Carmen] You know. 161 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,679 I've got some things that I've not spoken properly about to him. 162 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,280 And I don't know if he's even ready 163 00:08:01,359 --> 00:08:05,799 to kind of, like, talk about certain subjects, you know? 164 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,919 This is the time, you know, to just get it all out. 165 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:09,960 [R&B music plays] 166 00:08:10,039 --> 00:08:12,520 [sighing] Yeah. Let's hope he takes me seriously for once. 167 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,400 ♪ My man is at work When he stays till late night ♪ 168 00:08:19,479 --> 00:08:21,159 ♪ And he make double pay though ♪ 169 00:08:21,239 --> 00:08:23,359 ♪ I know he's rushing back home ♪ 170 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,520 ♪ Don't like to leave me alone ♪ 171 00:08:25,599 --> 00:08:28,599 ♪ My man cheering up When he saw some exes ♪ 172 00:08:28,679 --> 00:08:30,320 ♪ In the past when he be alone ♪ 173 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,559 ♪ I can tell his toying days are done ♪ 174 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,199 ♪ Baby boy, I know he is the one ♪ 175 00:08:41,079 --> 00:08:45,520 It's been a long time since you and I have been out together. 176 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:46,600 [Jermaine] Yeah. 177 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:49,400 In the spirit of homework, quality time, no kids. 178 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:50,920 [Dami] Yeah, that's nice. 179 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,560 You know, no one's saying, "Let's go to McDonald's!" 180 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:54,959 [laughs] 181 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,560 "I want a burger!" 182 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,400 -[gasps] Bae! What? -[whooping] 183 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,920 -Cheers! -To kicking out the boys. 184 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,440 Kicking out the boys. 185 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,600 ♪ My man is at work When he stays till late night ♪ 186 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:12,440 ♪ In the past when he be alone I can tell his toying days are done ♪ 187 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,240 ♪ Baby boy, I know he is the one ♪ 188 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,240 Yummy, yummy. 189 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,199 [song ends] 190 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,640 -[woman] So what's been going on? -[Kelvin] Right. 191 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,320 Honestly, that therapy session was just weird. 192 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:25,560 -[Kirsty] What happened? -Yeah. 193 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,560 I thought it was gonna go, "Problem, and this is how we fix it." 194 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,440 But it was more sort of banging on the problem, 195 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,560 like, you know, "You don't do this, and you haven't done this." 196 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,280 I feel like our relationship is falling apart. 197 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,720 I feel like you're not understanding that you're slacking. 198 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,800 And that's a big problem for me. 199 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,959 -Did you realize? -This is the first to my ears. 200 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,480 If I'm not happy, what we doing? 201 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,640 [Kelvin] I don't know if I wanna do another one. 202 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,079 -Yeah. -[Kirsty] Oh, man. 203 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,240 -It was a lot. Yeah. -[Kirsty] That's a shame. 204 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,920 Like, as your big sister, I feel like I just want the best for you. 205 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,160 Like, I've seen you grow, grind, 206 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,240 and you deserve to have someone that's understanding, 207 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,160 that's on your level. 208 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,480 And she has great qualities, don't get me wrong, 209 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:14,480 but she has to compromise, you know? 210 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:17,600 What hurts me the most is, obviously, Debbie knows the history. 211 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,560 You know the history, you know, more than anyone, both of us. 212 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,320 This being Mummy's restaurant, she knows it's deep-rooted. 213 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,320 -Have you told her about the therapy? -No. Shall I call her? 214 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,199 Yeah, man, see what she has to say 'cause I feel like her input might help. 215 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,640 -[line ringing] -She's gonna have a lot to say. 216 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,600 [Kelvin] Mummy? 217 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,199 -[Kelvin's mom] Yes? -How are you? Okay? 218 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:40,880 [Kelvin's mom] I'm not so bad. What's up? 219 00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:43,240 I'm sitting here with Kirsty. We're just talking, um… 220 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,240 -[Kelvin's mom] Hi. -[both laugh] 221 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,079 [Kelvin] So basically, Debbie took me on, like, therapy. 222 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,800 [Kelvin's mom] Kelvin, I'm old school. I don't believe in that. 223 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,760 -But the two of you sitting and talking… -Literally, I wish we did. 224 00:10:54,839 --> 00:10:55,920 We didn't speak. 225 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,280 -[Kelvin's mom] You didn't get anywhere? -No, we spoke. 226 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,199 But literally, the therapy session, it sort of all came out. 227 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,880 Like, she just was saying stuff I'd never heard before, you know. 228 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:05,520 [Kelvin's mom] Okay. 229 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,120 She feels that I'm just too busy doing the business, 230 00:11:09,199 --> 00:11:11,040 and, you know, she feels that the relationship's 231 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,480 not sort of going in the direction that it used to. 232 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:17,360 [Kelvin's mom] Yeah, but does Debbie want you to, you know, excel? 233 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,360 To do something for yourself in life? 234 00:11:19,959 --> 00:11:23,839 She has to… She has to bear with you. You know? So she needs to understand. 235 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,199 -[Kirsty] Can I ask you a question? -[Kelvin's mom] Yes. 236 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,280 Do you feel like Debbie's the one for Kelvin? 237 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:30,640 [Kelvin's mom] No. 238 00:11:30,719 --> 00:11:33,320 ["Easy To Fall Out Of Love" by Marz Fay plays] 239 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,360 ♪ I don't know what hurts me… ♪ 240 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,920 I'm too young for all of this shit. 241 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,520 ♪ Heartbreak or the truth ♪ 242 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:48,360 ♪ Why's it so easy To fall out of love with me? ♪ 243 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,680 [Debbie] Since our last therapy session, 244 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,000 me and Kelvin haven't really been in the best place. 245 00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:57,480 We haven't really been speaking, we haven't really seen each other. 246 00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,800 So I just feel a bit numb today. 247 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,880 ♪ But I still hope ♪ 248 00:12:02,959 --> 00:12:06,680 [Debbie] I came on my own, and if he wants to come, then he can. 249 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,520 Does he have all the time in the world? No. 250 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,800 But if he wanted to make our relationship work, 251 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,800 he would turn up. 252 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,160 It's left to him really. 253 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,959 I know Kelvin. I've known him for so long, 254 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,240 so I do believe that he doesn't want to lose me. 255 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,719 But I just don't know if he's doing enough to keep me. 256 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,560 ♪ Is it, it, it, is it love? ♪ 257 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,719 ♪ Is it, it, it, is it love? ♪ 258 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:33,640 [song ends] 259 00:12:33,719 --> 00:12:35,280 -[Karen] Hello, Debbie. -[Debbie] Hello. 260 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:36,360 Come on in. 261 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:37,560 Thank you. 262 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,280 [Karen] Sit down. 263 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,800 -Where's Kelvin? -He should be here shortly. 264 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,959 Has he been in touch with you? 265 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,199 We haven't spoken as much since our last session. 266 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:51,560 He is coming to the session? 267 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,760 If I'm important, I think he will come to this session. 268 00:12:55,839 --> 00:13:00,079 He knows it means a lot to me, so I think he should be here shortly. 269 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,160 How's it been? 270 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,719 It's been a bit weird. 271 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:07,920 Like, very different 272 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,160 from what I'm used to. 273 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,760 -Okay. Do you wanna say more? -[inhales] He's been quite cold since… 274 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:17,199 [Karen] Hi. 275 00:13:17,839 --> 00:13:19,240 -Hello, Kelvin. -How are you? 276 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,120 -I'm good. -[Kelvin] Sorry I'm late. 277 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,520 -How are you? -I'm good. You? 278 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:25,320 Tired. 279 00:13:26,599 --> 00:13:28,400 -Okay. -Welcome back. 280 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,480 -Thank you. -Are you okay, Kelvin? 281 00:13:32,079 --> 00:13:34,079 If I'm being honest, I wasn't gonna come. 282 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,280 Oh. 283 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,199 -[Kelvin] Yeah. -The truth is coming out. 284 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:38,480 I wasn't gonna come. 285 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,000 Because? 286 00:13:41,079 --> 00:13:43,120 -[Debbie] Mm. -Last time was awkward. 287 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:48,240 Okay. Talk to me about that. I… I wanna get to know how you felt. 288 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:49,360 [Kelvin] Um… 289 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:51,480 I think where it was the first time 290 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,160 I was hearing a lot of the stuff Debbie had to say. 291 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,520 -That obviously took me aback. -[Karen] Yes. 292 00:13:56,599 --> 00:14:00,560 And I just felt, I don't think I'm supposed to be here, you know? 293 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,599 Maybe this conversation would be better without me. 294 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:04,520 -No. -[Kelvin] Then I thought, "You know what?" 295 00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:07,640 I know how it'd make you feel if I didn't come. 296 00:14:07,719 --> 00:14:10,880 The work couldn't be done. There's a commitment to making an effort. 297 00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:12,719 How do you feel now? 298 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,920 'Cause you've been quite cold towards me since last therapy. 299 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,360 -I think anyone would be quite-- -Cold? 300 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,280 -Yeah. -Distant? 301 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,240 Taken aback. 302 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,920 So you're making the situation worse 303 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,360 because you're more distant, 304 00:14:29,439 --> 00:14:32,640 instead of improving the things that I opened up about. 305 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,439 I would say I'm processing. 306 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,079 -Okay. -It's a lot. 307 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,839 How did you feel without the contact? 308 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,400 Just disappointed. 309 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:48,079 You've just kind of like abandoned our relationship even more. 310 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,160 Debbie, some people need longer time to process. 311 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,560 -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -[Karen] I understand how you feel. 312 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,479 But from what Kelvin says, actually it was all quite shocking 313 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,800 and he needed to take himself away. 314 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,079 I understand that. 315 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,719 I just feel like you should've been available to me a bit more. 316 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:04,920 Yeah. 317 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,880 -Do you agree with that? -Yeah. Completely. 318 00:15:06,959 --> 00:15:10,240 But is that your default mode? You withdraw in order to process? 319 00:15:10,319 --> 00:15:14,000 Um, just in that instance, I don't think I would've had anything productive to say. 320 00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:14,959 [Karen] Okay. 321 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,000 I confided in my mum and my sister. 322 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,839 We spoke briefly about, um, the situation. 323 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,719 So can we hear a bit more about, um, the conversations you might've had? 324 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,120 -Yeah. -You all right with that, Debbie? 325 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,240 -Go on. -[chuckles softly] 326 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,280 Yeah, I spoke to my sister. 327 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,319 She sort of told me plain and simple that 328 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,760 as much as she understands where Debbie's coming from, 329 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,640 it's sort of something that Debbie has to kind of adapt to for now. 330 00:15:44,839 --> 00:15:45,920 Debbie? 331 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,079 To say I have to adapt to Kelvin disappointing me, 332 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:51,560 not being reliable, 333 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,160 not communicating with me properly, not sticking to his words… 334 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,199 -Yeah. -I just, I-- I can't-- I can't do that. 335 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,240 I don't think the word "adapt" is the right one to use. 336 00:16:01,319 --> 00:16:03,000 -It's like adapt to-- -Yeah. 337 00:16:03,079 --> 00:16:06,520 I think, more, um, compromise. 338 00:16:06,599 --> 00:16:07,800 No. 339 00:16:08,839 --> 00:16:09,839 No? What-- 340 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:10,760 No. 341 00:16:10,839 --> 00:16:11,839 [Karen] Okay. 342 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,760 And what about your mum? 343 00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:15,359 What were her words to you? 344 00:16:15,439 --> 00:16:17,959 She was, yeah, more along the same, like, you know, 345 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,839 she understands the magnitude of what I'm dealing with more than anyone, 346 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,640 so she was very much understanding to the sort of distancing yourself. 347 00:16:24,719 --> 00:16:27,680 -Your mum's been there. She's lived it. -She's been there. She understood it. 348 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,160 Yeah, so she understands. 349 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,880 Anything else your mum said, or was that it? 350 00:16:31,959 --> 00:16:33,199 Um… 351 00:16:36,479 --> 00:16:39,400 Yeah, nothing… nothing too crazy. 352 00:16:43,359 --> 00:16:44,719 [Karen] So compromise. 353 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,800 Are you considering some sort of compromise? 354 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,040 'Cause the onus at the moment is on Debbie to compromise. 355 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,280 [Kelvin] I think the more I think about 356 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,280 the sort of responsibility and pressure that I've been feeling, 357 00:16:57,359 --> 00:16:59,479 something has to give, you have to sacrifice, you know. 358 00:17:00,199 --> 00:17:02,479 So are you saying that it is the relationship 359 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,240 that you're willing to sacrifice? 360 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,159 I'd say I'm willing to sacrifice a lot, 361 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,399 but not particularly the relationship. 362 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,640 I'm willing to reassure you that it will get better, 363 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:16,760 but just let me figure this out. 364 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:18,359 [Debbie] Mm. 365 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,560 What are you hearing, Debbie? 366 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:24,839 I feel like the way you're communicating with me is like, 367 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,560 "This is my priorities right now." 368 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,120 "I can't do anything about it. This is just how it is." 369 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,360 -You still are my priority. -No, I'm not. 370 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,399 You prioritize what you wanna prioritize. 371 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,040 [Karen] I find myself thinking, 372 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:41,840 you know, this is not personal to you at all, 373 00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:44,520 but do you feel that a relationship is holding you back? 374 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,320 -Mm. That's a good question. -[Karen] This is not personal to you. 375 00:17:47,399 --> 00:17:51,520 It's about the concept of a relationship in your life currently. 376 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,360 No. Because it also benefits as well. 377 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,320 [Kelvin exhales] 378 00:17:56,399 --> 00:17:57,240 Wow. 379 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,880 Is the relationship holding you back? 380 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,240 From what? 381 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,320 From what I want, 382 00:18:03,399 --> 00:18:05,800 from what I expect from a partner. 383 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:06,760 Yeah. 384 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,480 I just don't feel 100% confident 385 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,720 that when I am ready to make decisions, 386 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,919 maybe, like, have kids or get married, 387 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,040 I feel like Kelvin will still disappoint me, 388 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,159 be saying, "Oh, Debbie, I just don't think it's the right time." 389 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,640 I just want a future plan that aligns together. 390 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,120 But I feel like he might not be sure what he will really want, 391 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,760 so I think he has to figure that out. 392 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,679 -[Karen] What do you think, Kelvin? -I'd hope I'd have more time by then. 393 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,600 But I feel like there's no work-life balance. 394 00:18:40,679 --> 00:18:43,320 But your mum put everything on hold for the business, 395 00:18:43,399 --> 00:18:45,000 so that's your model really. 396 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,760 I don't see any other way. 397 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,120 Can I just ask, did your mum and dad stay together? 398 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,320 No. 399 00:18:50,399 --> 00:18:52,919 So ultimately, she ended up without a relationship. 400 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,280 -Yeah. -[Karen] That's the model. 401 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:56,280 -Yeah. -[Karen] Is that where you want to go? 402 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,640 Or do you see that as a mistake for your mum? 403 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,240 I see it as a mistake. 404 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,880 But you are at the risk of losing something 405 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,440 that was special 406 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,159 and is special, I believe. 407 00:19:12,919 --> 00:19:13,840 Yeah. 408 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,120 Maybe I do need just to, like, take you out, do-- I'm-- 409 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,919 I'm structuring an idea, but I can't just jump into it. 410 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,399 -No, no. -[Kelvin] That is the… 411 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,720 -How does that feel to hear? -Okay. 412 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,200 I feel like it can't just be an idea though. 413 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:30,960 This has to be something that's like, 414 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,520 "Okay, I'm gonna prioritize Debbie, compromise." 415 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,360 "How's it-- How are we gonna balance this with the business?" 416 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:37,280 Yeah. 417 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,440 Can you two actually carve out some time 418 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,320 to go away from the restaurants… 419 00:19:42,399 --> 00:19:43,280 Yeah. 420 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,880 …between now and the next session? Just the two of you. 421 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,320 Taking yourselves out of what's usual… 422 00:19:51,399 --> 00:19:53,480 -Yeah. -…and really communicating. 423 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,640 So I'm gonna leave that with you. 424 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,880 But maybe it's an opportunity to have some fun. 425 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,679 I'm good at planning stuff. 426 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,800 -Gotta see it through. -Yeah. 427 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,000 [chuckles softly] 428 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,360 Thank you very much. 429 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,919 Thank you both. And we'll meet again. 430 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:10,600 -Bye-bye. -Bye. 431 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,880 ♪ Can we get a rewind, rewind? ♪ 432 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,040 ♪ To the good time, good time ♪ 433 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:18,760 [Debbie] I don't wanna be negative, 434 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,919 but it'll be interesting to see if Kelvin can commit. 435 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,200 I don't think he understands that I'm really willing to walk away. 436 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,640 I think he thinks it's not that serious, like, he'll be able to deal with it. 437 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,200 If I walk away, I don't go back. 438 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,480 Once I'm done, I'm done. 439 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,240 ♪ Can we get a rewind, rewind? ♪ 440 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,240 ♪ To the good time ♪ 441 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,200 Therapy is a highly valuable space for a couple, 442 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,919 but in order to make anything work, 443 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,040 they have to do the work outside the therapy room as well. 444 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,760 ♪ Rewind, rewind ♪ 445 00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:57,120 [Karen] It's not enough just working with the therapist. 446 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,800 All of this a couple need to talk about. 447 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,280 You have to put your head and breathe. 448 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,760 I feel like I'm going cross-eyed. 449 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,280 You're meant to kiss me. 450 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,480 -[chuckles] -[Yasmin chuckles] You're so dumb. 451 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,120 Hey! 452 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,840 I feel like I haven't kissed you in years. I feel like a teenager. 453 00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:28,399 -Like it was my first kiss or something. -[laughs] 454 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,000 [Karen] Both parts of a couple have to make time to be present. 455 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,399 If they don't carve out that time, 456 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,760 they start to live parallel lives. 457 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,880 I talk about a couple deal, 458 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,440 where people sit down and they work out between them 459 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,360 what are their hopes, aspirations, ambitions. 460 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,560 Whose career takes the hit when the baby comes along? 461 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,439 Does it matter who's the major earner? 462 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,000 All of these questions should be addressed 463 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,080 so couples have an understanding on which to go forward from. 464 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,040 Dami and Jermaine need to renegotiate their couple deal. 465 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,640 Dami is in a very vulnerable place. 466 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,679 She's just given birth to her second child. 467 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,240 Jermaine is rising, flying high, 468 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,320 and she's not sure where she is in the relationship. 469 00:22:16,399 --> 00:22:18,960 So Dami has to think about 470 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,320 not just what does Jermaine want of her, but what does she want next? 471 00:22:23,399 --> 00:22:25,520 Where does she want to go in her life? 472 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,040 [song ends] 473 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,919 -Hello, Dami. Hello, Jermaine. -Hi, Karen. 474 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,360 Hi. How are you doing? 475 00:22:34,439 --> 00:22:35,800 I'm well, thank you. 476 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,080 -Welcome back. -Thank you. 477 00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:42,919 What happened with the homework? Tell me about the homework. 478 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,919 Um, so we went to a vineyard. 479 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,880 -Lovely. -The homework was fun. 480 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,520 It was fun homework. Yeah, we put my phone away, 481 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:51,880 and I was present. 482 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:52,880 How did it feel? 483 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,760 Yeah, it was… It was nice to spend time, and… 484 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,800 I guess I haven't looked at Dami properly in a long time, so we-- 485 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,840 Yeah, we had a nice-- We connected. It was-- It was nice. 486 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,360 And we both agreed that we needed to… we needed to do it more often. 487 00:23:06,439 --> 00:23:07,399 More often. Yeah. 488 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,600 To kind of feel that emotional connection. 489 00:23:11,679 --> 00:23:14,000 And, um, a sense of intimacy. 490 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,439 -100%. -For sure. For sure. 491 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,040 Did that feel like it came back pretty quickly? 492 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,000 -Yeah, 100%, I'd say. -Yeah. 493 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,280 Like I felt like I wanted to be intimate, 494 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,360 which I never, ever feel, to be honest. [laughs] 495 00:23:29,439 --> 00:23:32,640 And did it get you thinking about this sleeping in separate rooms 496 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,679 or sleeping in the same room? Did it trigger thoughts around that? 497 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,919 Yeah, I think we had a few conversations about it this week. 498 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,120 Um, sort of how we're gonna move the kids around and sort everything out. 499 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,919 But yeah, we gave it a go. 500 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,600 He was definitely visiting more often, so… 501 00:23:47,679 --> 00:23:50,960 -[laughing] -[Karen] That's a result. 502 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,240 Are you ever gonna leave this room, or are you gonna keep popping in? 503 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,280 [Karen] That's a result. 504 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:56,480 -[Dami] Yeah. -Yeah. 505 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,720 Did that feel good? 506 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,800 Yeah, it was nice. It was nice to feel wanted again, 507 00:24:01,439 --> 00:24:02,919 and it was nice to be desired. 508 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,320 Since the last session, I've tried to kind of tone things down with work 509 00:24:08,399 --> 00:24:11,320 and try and delegate a bit more, so I feel like it's definitely helped. 510 00:24:11,399 --> 00:24:14,360 It's those little steps, isn't it? It doesn't have to be huge. 511 00:24:14,439 --> 00:24:17,120 It just needs to be small, consistent steps. 512 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,480 -For sure. -100%. 513 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,120 -For sure. -So far you've done really well. 514 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,880 -Thank you. -Yeah, we're trying. 515 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,679 -We're trying. -We're trying to move-- 516 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,960 We want our relationship to work, you know. 517 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,080 And if you have the right person, you have to work on issues together. 518 00:24:31,159 --> 00:24:34,320 It's all about teamwork and wanting the same thing. 519 00:24:34,399 --> 00:24:35,880 -Mm-hmm. -[Dami] Um… 520 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,880 It's just I would like 521 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,439 to go back to work eventually. 522 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,159 Like I can't just be your wife all day. 523 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:50,520 -You know. -Well, you could. 524 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,159 -[Karen laughs] -[Jermaine] You really could. 525 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,679 I'm ready to kind of be Dami again. 526 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,280 -Yeah. -[Dami] You know? 527 00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:59,439 And become the woman that I was before. 528 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,840 I mean, that is the Dami you fell in love with. 529 00:25:01,919 --> 00:25:03,600 -Right. -It is. 530 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,800 But I want a daughter. 531 00:25:07,919 --> 00:25:11,640 I've wanted a daughter since my mum told me she wasn't gonna have another kid. 532 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,360 -You didn't have a sister. -[Jermaine] I come from a house of boys. 533 00:25:14,439 --> 00:25:16,840 "You're not gonna get one of those. Wait until your turn." 534 00:25:16,919 --> 00:25:19,159 So I've always wanted to have a daughter. 535 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,320 Um, and I just feel like 536 00:25:22,399 --> 00:25:24,000 we need to discuss 537 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,040 how that's gonna fit into the timeline. 538 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:27,560 [Karen] That's honest. 539 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,080 How do you hear that? 540 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,120 Like, I hear it and I get it, but… 541 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,560 [inhales, sighs] Karen… 542 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,640 It's a bit of a sore and painful subject, you know, um… 543 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,280 He says he wants a daughter, he wants a daughter, 544 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:51,960 and it hurts me sometimes because 545 00:25:53,399 --> 00:25:54,679 we've had a daughter, 546 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,199 and we lost her. 547 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:02,240 It's painful 548 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,439 'cause it just reminds me 549 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,880 of what we've been through as a couple and as a family. 550 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,640 That must've been so hard. 551 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,919 Yeah. 552 00:26:13,679 --> 00:26:15,880 -[Jermaine sighs] -I don't know how to word this, but… 553 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,080 we both carry a gene. 554 00:26:19,159 --> 00:26:21,399 -The sickle cell gene. -[Dami] A sickle cell gene. 555 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,320 Yeah. 556 00:26:22,399 --> 00:26:25,120 And it's something that runs in families 557 00:26:25,199 --> 00:26:28,520 of like African and Indian heritage, 558 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,720 so that means we've got 25% chance 559 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,560 of passing on this gene onto our child. 560 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:35,760 Okay. 561 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,000 It's not just life-changing, it alters everything. 562 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,480 It's random chronic illnesses, um, 563 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,360 extreme pain. 564 00:26:45,439 --> 00:26:48,159 It just hinders your quality of life. 565 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,120 You can have a test called a CVS test. 566 00:26:53,199 --> 00:26:56,280 For us, we-- I don't know what it was, 567 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,720 but we were just positive. We ha-- 568 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,000 We thought this was gonna be amazing. We're having a daughter. 569 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,159 We're so excited. 570 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,679 After doing it the first time and it had been clear. 571 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,080 Our first boy-- We did the test with our first boy-- 572 00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:10,480 -And it'd been fine. -[Dami] And he'd been fine. 573 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,000 So we were on this high, like, "We're untouchable. We're unstoppable." 574 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,360 I knew it was gonna be a girl. 575 00:27:15,439 --> 00:27:19,080 I had the feeling that my daughter's on her way kind of thing. 576 00:27:19,159 --> 00:27:22,000 And then to get that call… 577 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,280 Um, my world just became dark 578 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,320 and black, 579 00:27:31,399 --> 00:27:33,000 and I was in disbelief. 580 00:27:33,679 --> 00:27:35,240 [melancholy music plays] 581 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,040 We kinda made the conscious decision 582 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,280 that, you know, we weren't going to bring in… 583 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:42,919 uh, bring a child into the world that has this disease. 584 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,240 Yeah. 585 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,199 It was the hardest decision 586 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,960 and the hardest choice of our lives. 587 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,439 -[Jermaine] Mm-hmm. -I can imagine that. 588 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:00,919 Mm. 589 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,560 I have never, ever spoken 590 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,000 about losing our baby to sickle cell 591 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,439 to anyone other than family. 592 00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:14,040 So just telling Karen about that 593 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:18,240 and letting her see a part of me that I've hidden, 594 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,199 I feel… [exhales] 595 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,800 Like, I feel sad. 596 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,480 I feel sad. 597 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,560 [producer] It's okay, my darling. You just take your time. 598 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,880 [crying] 599 00:28:36,959 --> 00:28:38,040 [producer] It's okay. 600 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,360 Oh, God. [sniffles] 601 00:28:42,919 --> 00:28:44,360 [breathes deeply] 602 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,879 Um… Yeah, it was tough. 603 00:28:52,959 --> 00:28:54,159 And for you? 604 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,199 -It's… It's unimaginable. -[Karen] Yeah. 605 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,679 Like, every time I think about it, I'm always like, 606 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,120 "Did I do the right thing," 607 00:29:06,199 --> 00:29:08,800 or "Did we make the right decision?" 608 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,879 Like, "What does God think?" 609 00:29:11,959 --> 00:29:14,480 "I've sent one of his kids back to him." 610 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,199 Like, I've never spoken so much about it. I think it's just a lot. 611 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,040 It's really sad. 612 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,040 [music ends] ad.