[gentle instrumental music plays]
[Dami] He says he wants a daughter.
It hurts me sometimes because
we've had a daughter, and we lost her.
Yeah.
What about you, Jermaine?
[exhales]
[Jermaine] It was tough.
Yeah.
For me to really want that, and then for it to, I guess--
For her to be taken away the way she was,
it was hard. Yeah.
But what about the grief?
What did you do with that?
-He went straight to work. -I went straight to work.
-Yes. -[Jermaine] Yeah, I--
To be fair, I made sure Dami was good. Like, looked after her.
You know what? You did.
I'd say you definitely looked after me.
But I'd say two months later, that's when I saw the change in him.
As quick as he could run out of that door, he was gone.
-Would you agree? -Yeah.
What was I supposed to do? [scoffs]
Like, there's not much that I could do. Like… I…
It's tough. Like, someone has to, you know, put the hat back on
and, you know, get back out there, or get back on the horse,
which is what I'm used to doing.
-It is exactly what you're used to doing. -Yeah.
But I just wonder what happened to that mutual grief.
[inhales] I found that
he found it very hard to hear about it.
-Yes. Yes. -[Dami] Or to talk about it.
Whereas I felt like I wanted to talk about it.
Yes.
We still have her ashes at home, actually.
-Yeah, we still have the ashes. -[Dami] And Jer is cute.
Like, he, like, moves her every once in a while. [chuckles]
He will tell me, he's like, "Oh, babe, so lucky it's with you in the morning."
Like, shows the kind of man that he is. He's really sweet.
So I'm not there, but, you know, I do try.
[light music plays]
You're a great solution-focused brain.
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -So you come up with solutions.
Whereas sometimes, I think Dami just wants you to be there
in that moment with her.
Doesn't matter whether it's right, wrong, different,
and actually not looking to you for a solution.
-Is that right, Dami? -Yeah.
What would've been better?
I would've just loved to cry with you next to me
or cry with you.
Even though I felt you feel that pain too,
but I never saw it.
I don't think I experienced it with you.
Mm.
I know you try not to be upset because you don't want me to get upset.
-But I know that you're upset. -[Jermaine] But this is the thing.
I have to be the strong one when you're not the strong one
so that we can--
So that we can actually-- There's a light at the end of the tunnel.
We can't both be blinded.
It's not that.
But sometimes, especially where grief is concerned, perhaps you can.
There's no quick fix for that. No solution.
Fair. It's just not something I'm used to.
-I know. -[Jermaine] At all.
-[softly] Yeah. -Not at all.
I know. But it's that withdrawal.
It's that-- It's that pulling back that leaves Dami feeling so isolated.
-Fair enough. -100%.
[music ends]
You talk about not being heard, not being seen, not being cared for,
but part of that is because you don't lean in
and let it know you want to be cared for.
And yet, when you do share those moments with Dami,
I'm sure they make you feel
really at home.
So that emotional suppression is something for you two
to think about and keep working on.
And then another child,
it's at least up for discussion further down the line.
Once-- Once Dami feels like she's really recovered.
Yeah.
♪ Just give me more time ♪
So I hope these sessions have been helpful.
Definitely.
100%.
♪ Give me more time ♪
-I wish you all the very best. -Thank you so much.
-[Karen] Thank you both.
I think me and Dami have had a full circle moment.
-Take care. -[Karen] Bye-bye.
-Bye. -Bye-bye.
[Jermaine] I've gone from not really wanting to come to therapy
to being a beneficiary of it.
Like, I feel like with life, sometimes we get complacent,
we kind of take each other for granted.
I feel like therapy has definitely helped me to take a step back.
So yeah.
I've learned a lot about Jermaine.
Yes, he's a man, but he feels too.
And just because he's a man, doesn't mean that he's strong enough.
Even though he shows up as strong enough, doesn't mean that he actually is.
I didn't think, like, I was really allowed to be emotional,
because my wife needed me.
I needed to step up and be a husband, be a dad at the same time.
But coming to therapy has definitely made me understand
that I do need to take that time for myself
so that I'm emotionally healthy.
It's just been the breath of fresh air that we've needed
to move on from this stage of our relationship.
It's been great.
♪ Give me more time More time, more time ♪
[song fades]
[R&B music plays]
♪ You and I ♪
♪ Love a bit of fight ♪
♪ We always break up ♪
♪ Then make up all night ♪
♪ It's so bittersweet to me ♪
♪ I need you, boy ♪
♪ Both know it's bittersweet ♪
[vocalizing]
[song ends]
[Karen] How are you feeling?
Good.
Yeah.
A bit nervous.
You showed quite a bit of vulnerability in the last session.
Yeah, I did. I did.
So cheating has become a bit of a norm for you.
[Shay] Yeah.
Kind of lost my best mate.
Wow.
How did that feel?
You know what? 'Cause I'm not really the emotional type,
so I feel like it was just…
I feel like it was just needed. Maybe I was holding on to that feeling.
You know, like I didn't really wanna let you know that's how I felt.
Do you know what I mean? The soft side. Yeah.
'Cause I'm wondering how Mons felt about it.
Yeah, no, it was just good to see that she can be vulnerable.
You know, like, you have a…
Not that you don't have a heart, but you really have feelings.
So, yeah, I felt like it was really helpful
in understanding her perspective of the relationship
and how it made her feel.
I normally just, like, have a wall up, yeah.
And can you see how that wall can affect the connection between you two?
Yeah.
Is that new for you?
Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Yeah.
Have you had a long-term relationship before?
I wouldn't say long-term.
-I'd say, like, two. -Girls or boys?
Girls.
[Karen] Always other gay, queer girls?
[Shay] Um, to be honest,
Monique's like, my first gay relationship.
Wow, mad.
First gay relationship?
-[Shay] Yeah. -Talk to me about that.
Um, I've just always gone out with girls that like guys,
to be honest. Yeah.
Why?
I guess it's like a-- I don't know. I don't know.
I just feel like it's a cha-- Not a challenge.
Because sometimes it's-- They will come to me. I'll go to them.
I think you like the idea of being the only woman
the girls has ever spoken to.
-In that way? -[Mons] Yeah.
So, it's like, "Oh, like, I clearly must be 'special' special,
'cause you like guys."
[Shay laughs]
"So if you like me now, then, like,
there's something about me that you wanna explore."
-Yeah. Yeah. -So is that quite exciting?
[Shay] It is exciting.
But then, at the same time, it's very much…
-It gets toxic. -Say more.
If I end up stepping out the relationship a few times, you know what I mean?
-What do you mean by "stepping out"? -As in, like, cheating, for an example.
They may just go and talk to a guy,
and then after that's been crossed,
I'm no longer interested.
And then that would just be my cue to… to go.
But you've almost made that happen by stepping out.
-Yeah. -[Karen] Mm-hmm.
So this is a bit of a pattern.
It is.
So, how does it feel to be in a longer-term relationship?
This is the longest you've ever been with somebody, isn't it?
Yeah.
Are you still working out what that means for both of you?
What is a relationship?
Yeah, like, I'm still trying to find my balance on what it is.
For an example,
I like going out,
where, like, she'll be like…
I'm not sharing my time, basically, properly.
As in, like, remember that you're in a relationship…
-[Karen] Yes. -…and she needs her time.
And you're not just gonna go out to go and link your friends all the time.
-Prioritizing time for the relationship. -Yeah, yeah.
[Karen] Not just always prioritizing hanging out.
[Shay] Yeah.
[Karen] What about you, Mons? Does that leave you feeling lonely?
Sometimes, yeah, 100%.
'Cause now we've, like, moved out of ends.
Nothing's round the corner.
If I wanna go anywhere, it's an hour drive.
Like, it's just…
-It gets boring. -[Karen] I'm interested, Mons.
All this time on your own, who do you talk to?
I don't know, like…
Do you know what? Like, I don't have any, like, long-term friends.
Like, she's got a big friendship group around her,
but I don't have a big group of people.
It's always been me and my mum, so I don't have siblings.
-Yes. -A pet.
I don't have anything in my house. It's literally been--
So you're quite used to being "solo"?
Yeah. But it is quite lonely.
Do you realize that Mons is lonely?
No.
Not really. No.
-Because I say to her… -"Go out with your friends."
If she went out and she found her hobbies…
because you're not out, and you choose not to go out with your friends,
obviously, you want my… my attention as well.
-Not 24/7. -[Shay] Yeah, but--
If we had a date night scheduled every single month,
I know that's my day, that's my time, but we don't have that.
And if we do, the day will come,
"I've gotta go here. It's someone's birthday."
"I've gotta go there. I haven't seen them in ages."
Then it's just like it's no longer a priority.
True?
I guess so.
I didn't hear Mons asking for a lot there.
-[Shay] No. -One date night a month.
It's not a lot.
But did you hear also how Mons expects you to disappoint her?
Ooh.
Yeah, that's deep.
I hear that.
Do you do that?
Yeah, I feel like you're committed to each other, for an example,
but at the same time, you don't forget yourself.
[Karen] Yourself.
[Shay] Like, I just don't want her to, like,
forget who she was before me kind of thing.
-[Karen] Yes. -You understand what I'm saying?
The balance.
-[Shay] The balance. -It's the management of the balance.
Yeah.
I feel like I struggle with balance in a way where…
Yeah, I just think I end up all in too much.
[Karen] Too much?
-[Mons] Yeah. -It's called a merge.
You merge in too much and then you lose a bit of yourself.
-[Mons] Mm. -Is that how you're feeling?
[Mons] I'm reflecting on my relationships.
I've been like that in all of them. So I think it is something that I do.
And the problem with that is that it can put pressure on your partner.
-It can. -I know.
And it can distort the relationship.
So the focus is entirely on the relationship
and lost on yourself.
Mm.
Yeah, no, that's… That's fair.
Yeah.
[ambient music plays]
I feel like we had to tap into Mons
to understand why
she's very much attached to me.
I do feel a bit sad
that she feels like she doesn't have anyone to rely on
because I do feel like she does.
When I came here,
I mainly came here under the pretense that Shay's the problem.
But, um, I've learned today that I'm also a little bit of the problem.
[Karen] Bye, both.
-Take care. -Take care.
I feel like I need to work on my balance,
and I need to work on not applying so much pressure on my relationship.
Strong relationships thrive on balance,
on both people having their own lives
and then bringing that into the couple.
Mons and Shay really illustrated
the dance between interdependence and autonomy,
and it wasn't quite right.
Shay is incredibly independent.
Mons is more introvert
and has admitted to the fact
that actually she feels lonely within the couple.
And so she's so dependent on Shay,
and it makes Shay feel very suffocated.
Mons needs to build her own self and her own life.
Once Mons does that,
she will notice that Shay will come more into the couple.
It's a bit of a balance thing.
[music ends]
♪ I never believed ♪
♪ Turn around and love me ♪
♪ The way I am ♪
♪ I never believed ♪
♪ Someone will love me ♪
What's happening, boys? Come through. How you doing?
[man] Okay, then.
[music ends]
Here she is. This is our Q3, boys.
-Uh, S line Sportback. -[Mike] Wow.
[salesman] Guys, get in the car, see how you feel about it.
[engine starting]
-[Dwayne] Mm. -[Mike] Smooth.
[engine dying]
-Me and Yas have been going to therapy. -Okay.
-When we were in the therapy session… -Yeah?
…I told her that I lost my job.
And I've lost it more than a month ago, nearly two months ago.
-[exclaims] -I've been pretending to go to work.
I've been made redundant.
I can't even look at you right now. I can't.
It's embarrassing to say, but, literally, I'll dress up like I'm going to work.
-We leave the house around the same time. -[inhales sharply]
And then I'll literally circle round,
and as long as she's gone to work,
I'll just circle back home.
After that, obviously,
I've got a massive bit of money being made redundant.
-Okay. -So I do feel like
having that amount of money has gassed me up.
It would, naturally.
Like, she's telling me, "Get a job, don't do that,
make sure you pay the debts, and make sure you do this and do that."
I'm thinking, "It's my money. I get to do what I like with it."
-Bro… -I feel like I can make it work.
[upbeat music plays]
[Karen] Money can be a contentious issue within a couple.
If Mike can learn to manage his financial stability,
can the trust and the intimacy that he so craves be rebuilt?
[Yasmin] Hello.
[Karen] Hi, Yasmin. Hi, Mike. Sit yourselves down.
[music ends]
[Karen] You said in the last session
that you're going to use the redundancy money
to get yourselves straight.
Has anything happened since the last session?
So I have paid off one credit card,
and Yas has seen it.
She's obviously still on my back for not paying off the rest,
but given time--
Not too much. I'm not on your back too much.
I'm just keeping the plan in your mind.
Going in the right direction.
What's your resistance to it?
[exhales]
It might sound silly,
but it's enjoying having a lot of money sitting in the bank
for the first time.
That seeing that amount is actually a nice feeling.
Maybe it makes me feel taller, stronger, faster.
So we've tapped into something there, haven't we?
Yes.
Your vision of how you want to be seen
in terms of your…
your family and your status.
I do believe that money does make the man.
Traditionally and instinctively,
if you can provide resources in excess
for yourself, for your missus,
for your children, and maybe extended family,
then it does make you the guy.
Yeah, but it puts a crazy amount of pressure on you.
[Mike] She forgot, on our first date, she pulled up in a Q2, a new Audi Q2.
-Yeah. -And pulled up next to my beat-up Corsa.
And you're telling-- How did you feel in that car?
I didn't look at your Corsa and go, "That's shit. I'm not coming on the date."
-Well, I-- -[Yasmin laughs]
Did you hear that?
She didn't look at the Corsa and say--
Because she was being nice.
Nice, or it really doesn't matter to her?
Because I'm still here five years later, with a child,
living with you. [chuckles]
But what does the car mean for you, Mike? What--
I think it means status, it means a little bit of power,
it means a little bit of confidence. It gives you that boost.
It makes you feel a little bit better about yourself.
So cars are a sort of a-- They're… They're a message to the world.
-"Here I am. I've arrived." -Yeah. [exhales]
Don't get mad at me, basically,
but…
Um, so I went to an Audi showroom the other day.
I, uh,
started inquiring about a Q3.
I took it for a test drive first.
And I'll be honest with you, it was an unreal experience.
Because I love her
and because I know the right thing to do.
-I didn't sign those papers. -That was the right answer.
Because my, my, my chest…
I would've said, "You've got a 28-day cooling-off period."
That you need to go and unsign anything and get your money back.
I was looking where the water was. I thought she was gonna chuck it at me.
It was just… I have to use my sense at the end of the day.
I've got stuff to pay for. I've got bills to pay for.
But I kid you not, I was so close to putting pen to paper.
How do you feel now
that you actually didn't go with the impulse to buy?
It feels good
'cause it makes me feel like I'm in control.
It makes me feel like I'm using my sense,
I'm being an adult, not a boy.
It's making you feel like a man,
that you're actually able to say no sometimes.
-[Mike] Yeah. -[Karen] And resist that temptation.
-How does it leave you feeling? -Don't know why you're looking at me.
I don't wanna have to look after my partner.
You know, it's a partnership. We're meant to be equal.
I don't wanna have to look after him or mind him.
But how much do you look after and mind?
I think I do a lot,
and I think it's because I've got a big heart.
So I know that--
A… A big heart?
Or you can't stand not doing it?
-[Mike] That's-- -Maybe both.
I think you actually get pleasure from being in control
because you can't let things go.
You can't let things go without being in control of things.
You're definitely like that.
Okay, let's… let's have a think about that, Yasmin.
What is that control about?
-Making sure things are done properly. -Nah.
-Let's go into the-- -No, when it comes to time--
[Karen] No, no, not time, just control.
Keeping tabs, making sure he does things,
doing too much.
-[Mike] You're burning out. -It's learned behavior.
-Know what I mean? -[Karen] Okay.
-I've-- That's all I've seen. -But what effect does it have?
Yeah, it's tiring.
-It's exhausting for you, and? -[Yasmin] Yeah.
-Burning yourself out. -Annoying for him.
Well, it emasculates him.
Mm.
I'm trying to be the mum, the wife, everything for everyone.
And I didn't actually think that
that could take away from anyone's sense of self.
It's the first time I've thought about it like that.
Sometimes, in order to be a proper couple, you have to pull back a bit
because he'd be allowed to make more effort.
And maybe that would help your intimacy issues.
-True. -Yeah.
-So both of you in your lanes. -Yeah.
[Karen] And then coming together.
-[Yasmin] Yeah. -And connecting.
-You wanted to say like an avatar. -[Karen] Sorry?
-[laughs] He wanted to say like an avatar. -An avatar.
-You connect your tail to the animal. -When they put their ponytail…
Okay, guys, it's been a pleasure to work with you.
I really hope this has been helpful.
-It has. Thank you so much. -It has. Thank you.
Thank you both. And good luck.
-Thank you. -Thank you.
-Take care. -[Karen] Thank you.
Karen, she's really helped us to break down
some of the walls we were building up.
♪ What would I do without you? ♪
Listening is key, which I think can sometimes get lost
when you've been in a relationship with someone for a while.
Let's go home.
Yeah?
Money isn't always what makes the man. Karen has definitely made me see that.
-[Mike] There you go. -[Yasmin] Thank you.
At first, I was a little bit wary about therapy in general.
But I may consider having therapy in the future.
♪ What would I do without you? ♪
[engine revving]
♪ What would I do without you? ♪
[song ends]
["Down to Business" by Alexandre Clouzard, Eva Rawlings & Skip Armstrong plays]
♪ Let's get down, down Getting down to business… ♪
[birds chirping]
♪ I'm not running for the fitness ♪
♪ Let's get down, down, down Down on my hit list ♪
♪ Let's get down, down, down to business ♪
♪ Do what you gotta do What you gotta do ♪
♪ Do what you gotta Let's get down to ♪
[song ends]
-[Karen] Hello, you two. How are you? -[Junior] Hi.
[Carmen] Yeah, good.
Last session was interesting. [chuckles]
Very interesting. It was good.
I was quite taken aback and surprised
by what ended up coming out.
The thing that has caused me a lot of hurt
is the way she asked me for a divorce on my birthday.
You all right, Junior?
I think, off the back of that session,
I kind of have realized a lot of things.
We both understand each other now,
so I'm glad that that came out, to be honest.
I-- I feel better about the whole situation now.
Well done. Well done.
So the homework.
-Did you do it? -Yeah.
-[Karen] Yeah?
I'm gonna go through the questions,
and then you can tell me what your answers were.
Okay.
[Karen] "When do you feel most appreciated by me?"
Junior?
"I feel most appreciated when you look into my eyes
and pay attention to me
and focus on me."
"When you tell me you love me
and you recognize what I do for you and the family."
Okay.
Do you want to respond? What's yours?
I feel most appreciated if he, like, brings up to me,
"Oh, thank you for this," or, "Well done for that."
I feel like I probably get that maybe, like, once a month.
-[Karen] Once a month? -Okay.
[Carmen] Yeah.
So,
what's interesting about those two responses?
-I think they're quite similar. -[Karen] Exactly, Junior.
Neither of you feel appreciated.
And it's a shared dynamic.
"What do you miss most about how we used to connect?"
So he tends not to always answer his phone when he's out,
and that's an issue for me.
A couple of weeks ago, um, he'd gone out, and…
-Is this work or social? -[Carmen] This was for work.
-Okay? Um… -It's always for work.
[Carmen] He was supposed to come home. Tried calling him for a good two hours
because as far as I was aware, he was supposed to finish at one.
And he called me, it must have been about three o'clock,
and he was at somebody's house. And for me, that's totally fine.
Like, if you need to stay out, that's fine, but let me know.
What does that leave you thinking?
Um…
I mean, I hate to say it, because…
I just don't really like this kind of energy on our relationship, but…
Can you look at me when I'm talking to you?
Sometimes, it makes me feel insecure, and it makes me feel like you might have…
[clicks tongue]
[exhales] I just-- I don't know if there's, like,
something else out there, or…
Something else like what?
Sometimes I feel mistrusting of you.
So you're making accusations again, basically?
Actually, actually, hold on a minute.
Carmen's saying how she's feeling, not making accusations.
And actually, she was really careful not to do that.
She's been really open
and explained that, actually, sometimes your absences
tap into her insecurity.
So there's no accusations there.
Carmen's talking about herself
and how some of the behaviors trigger her.
Carmen,
you have a choice to trust me or not.
Like, I've told you time and time again that I'm not doing anything.
You've been through my phone a million times,
and you've not discovered anything untoward.
So all this paranoia of,
"Oh, you're not picking up the phone, so, what are you doing?"
Maybe I'm having fun with my friends or with my work colleagues,
and maybe that fun does not include another female
doing something that is against the rules of our relationship.
-This is exactly the-- -You know? Trust is a choice.
What you're doing right now is exactly what I'm trying to explain.
Like, you're not getting it, like-- It's about how I feel inside,
how you make me feel when you do certain things.
Hold on, stay with that a moment. It is about how Carmen feels.
Now you've just been a bit dismissive of that
and said that she's not really allowed to feel like that.
That's a bit unempathic.
-Okay. -[Karen] 'Cause your wife feels insecure.
And is there anything you could do in a compassionate way
to help her feel more comfortable?
I'm happy to give Carmen more attention if that's what she feels like she needs.
I more just want you to be respectful of
what I'm asking,
which is to just communicate more.
I want to work through these issues
and move forward
and grow our family even more.
He went and did something
that I did not agree to at all.
Um, and there was just no conversation about it.
-When? -I just found out a few weeks ago.
-What is it? -Do you want to tell Karen what you did?
I had a vasectomy
because I felt like, um…
[sighs]
…I was not ready to have any more kids, and…
You know, when we broke up and we separated,
it was surrounding this subject.
This is, like, a major life decision. Like, you can't just do that.
I did tell you that I was thinking about it.
You told me you were thinking about it, but you can't do something like that.
Well, it's-- Carmen, it's my body.
If I have chosen that I do not want to have any more children in this moment,
then I think that I should be entitled to make that decision.
The reason why I went to do it,
without specifically informing you I'm gonna go and do this on this day,
is because I know that it's gonna…
It was-- It would've blown up and become a whole thing,
and your whole motive would've been to stop me from doing it.
This is ju-- It's just not okay for me.
Like, this is-- This is a major, major issue for me.
You're so pushy with the subject, Carmen.
-I'm not pushy. -It makes me feel very uncomfortable.
I don't like being told what to do. I don't like being told when to do it.
-You're very pushy with this subject. -Listen--
I really wanna have that fourth child, and that's what it is.
We've had this conversation many times.
For him now to have done something like this
leads me to believe that, like, I've been led on all this time.
That you don't-- That you actually don't wanna have a fourth child,
and for me, that is a major issue.
Yeah, I get that.
Like, yes, we had the conversation about him, you know, freezing…
You know, you can freeze your sperm and whatnot.
Um, and that way we can still have kids,
which, as far as I knew, I thought you was on the same page as me.
I thought you also wanted to have more kids. I don't get it.
It's done, the vasectomy is done,
but the sperm is stored and you can have a baby.
-Yeah. -It's a matter of timing for you, Junior?
Um… Yeah, I mean, that's something else that we need to talk about.
What'd you mean?
It's something that I haven't told Carmen, that, um,
I haven't really been able to find a way and a time to tell her.
[tense music plays]
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to freeze my sperm.
Like, what do you mean?
So, now having a fourth child's not even an option?
I'm sorry, Carmen. I tried.
[music intensifies]
[dramatic music plays]
[music continues]
[music ends] ues]