1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,039 [gentle instrumental music plays] 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,160 [Dami] He says he wants a daughter. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,040 It hurts me sometimes because 4 00:00:17,279 --> 00:00:20,040 we've had a daughter, and we lost her. 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:21,520 Yeah. 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,279 What about you, Jermaine? 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:30,680 [exhales] 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,360 [Jermaine] It was tough. 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:34,280 Yeah. 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,879 For me to really want that, and then for it to, I guess-- 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,360 For her to be taken away the way she was, 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,320 it was hard. Yeah. 13 00:00:43,559 --> 00:00:45,120 But what about the grief? 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:47,360 What did you do with that? 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,760 -He went straight to work. -I went straight to work. 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:50,840 -Yes. -[Jermaine] Yeah, I-- 17 00:00:50,919 --> 00:00:54,440 To be fair, I made sure Dami was good. Like, looked after her. 18 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,000 You know what? You did. 19 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,199 I'd say you definitely looked after me. 20 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,480 But I'd say two months later, that's when I saw the change in him. 21 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,560 As quick as he could run out of that door, he was gone. 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,759 -Would you agree? -Yeah. 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,080 What was I supposed to do? [scoffs] 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,560 Like, there's not much that I could do. Like… I… 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,720 It's tough. Like, someone has to, you know, put the hat back on 26 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,240 and, you know, get back out there, or get back on the horse, 27 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:25,240 which is what I'm used to doing. 28 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:27,839 -It is exactly what you're used to doing. -Yeah. 29 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,960 But I just wonder what happened to that mutual grief. 30 00:01:37,839 --> 00:01:40,160 [inhales] I found that 31 00:01:40,839 --> 00:01:43,240 he found it very hard to hear about it. 32 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:45,759 -Yes. Yes. -[Dami] Or to talk about it. 33 00:01:45,839 --> 00:01:49,600 Whereas I felt like I wanted to talk about it. 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:50,520 Yes. 35 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,880 We still have her ashes at home, actually. 36 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,880 -Yeah, we still have the ashes. -[Dami] And Jer is cute. 37 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,160 Like, he, like, moves her every once in a while. [chuckles] 38 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,080 He will tell me, he's like, "Oh, babe, so lucky it's with you in the morning." 39 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,880 Like, shows the kind of man that he is. He's really sweet. 40 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,639 So I'm not there, but, you know, I do try. 41 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,720 [light music plays] 42 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,799 You're a great solution-focused brain. 43 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,239 -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -So you come up with solutions. 44 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,680 Whereas sometimes, I think Dami just wants you to be there 45 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:26,840 in that moment with her. 46 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:29,440 Doesn't matter whether it's right, wrong, different, 47 00:02:29,519 --> 00:02:32,280 and actually not looking to you for a solution. 48 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,280 -Is that right, Dami? -Yeah. 49 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:35,640 What would've been better? 50 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,480 I would've just loved to cry with you next to me 51 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,680 or cry with you. 52 00:02:43,959 --> 00:02:47,000 Even though I felt you feel that pain too, 53 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:48,239 but I never saw it. 54 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,360 I don't think I experienced it with you. 55 00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:51,920 Mm. 56 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,840 I know you try not to be upset because you don't want me to get upset. 57 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:57,679 -But I know that you're upset. -[Jermaine] But this is the thing. 58 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,360 I have to be the strong one when you're not the strong one 59 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:01,280 so that we can-- 60 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,799 So that we can actually-- There's a light at the end of the tunnel. 61 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,440 We can't both be blinded. 62 00:03:06,519 --> 00:03:07,440 It's not that. 63 00:03:07,519 --> 00:03:11,320 But sometimes, especially where grief is concerned, perhaps you can. 64 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,280 There's no quick fix for that. No solution. 65 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,000 Fair. It's just not something I'm used to. 66 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,560 -I know. -[Jermaine] At all. 67 00:03:23,399 --> 00:03:24,480 -[softly] Yeah. -Not at all. 68 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,799 I know. But it's that withdrawal. 69 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,480 It's that-- It's that pulling back that leaves Dami feeling so isolated. 70 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,280 -Fair enough. -100%. 71 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,480 [music ends] 72 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,760 You talk about not being heard, not being seen, not being cared for, 73 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,760 but part of that is because you don't lean in 74 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,920 and let it know you want to be cared for. 75 00:03:49,959 --> 00:03:55,040 And yet, when you do share those moments with Dami, 76 00:03:55,119 --> 00:03:57,679 I'm sure they make you feel 77 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,239 really at home. 78 00:04:01,399 --> 00:04:04,000 So that emotional suppression is something for you two 79 00:04:04,079 --> 00:04:06,320 to think about and keep working on. 80 00:04:07,679 --> 00:04:09,320 And then another child, 81 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,920 it's at least up for discussion further down the line. 82 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,039 Once-- Once Dami feels like she's really recovered. 83 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:18,959 Yeah. 84 00:04:19,039 --> 00:04:21,479 ♪ Just give me more time ♪ 85 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,120 So I hope these sessions have been helpful. 86 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:26,280 Definitely. 87 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,400 100%. 88 00:04:27,479 --> 00:04:28,920 ♪ Give me more time ♪ 89 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,599 -I wish you all the very best. -Thank you so much. 90 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,800 -Thank you so much. -[Karen] Thank you both. 91 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,960 I think me and Dami have had a full circle moment. 92 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,160 -Take care. -[Karen] Bye-bye. 93 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,080 -Bye. -Bye-bye. 94 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,160 [Jermaine] I've gone from not really wanting to come to therapy 95 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,360 to being a beneficiary of it. 96 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,560 Like, I feel like with life, sometimes we get complacent, 97 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,160 we kind of take each other for granted. 98 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,640 I feel like therapy has definitely helped me to take a step back. 99 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:54,560 So yeah. 100 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,599 I've learned a lot about Jermaine. 101 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,160 Yes, he's a man, but he feels too. 102 00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:06,640 And just because he's a man, doesn't mean that he's strong enough. 103 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,800 Even though he shows up as strong enough, doesn't mean that he actually is. 104 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,240 I didn't think, like, I was really allowed to be emotional, 105 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:16,640 because my wife needed me. 106 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,039 I needed to step up and be a husband, be a dad at the same time. 107 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,240 But coming to therapy has definitely made me understand 108 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,120 that I do need to take that time for myself 109 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,000 so that I'm emotionally healthy. 110 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,640 It's just been the breath of fresh air that we've needed 111 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,640 to move on from this stage of our relationship. 112 00:05:35,479 --> 00:05:36,320 It's been great. 113 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,960 ♪ Give me more time More time, more time ♪ 114 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,800 [song fades] 115 00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:54,039 [R&B music plays] 116 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,080 ♪ You and I ♪ 117 00:05:56,840 --> 00:05:58,919 ♪ Love a bit of fight ♪ 118 00:05:59,479 --> 00:06:01,320 ♪ We always break up ♪ 119 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,120 ♪ Then make up all night ♪ 120 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:09,039 ♪ It's so bittersweet to me ♪ 121 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,840 ♪ I need you, boy ♪ 122 00:06:11,919 --> 00:06:15,880 ♪ Both know it's bittersweet ♪ 123 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,840 [vocalizing] 124 00:06:18,919 --> 00:06:20,000 [song ends] 125 00:06:21,599 --> 00:06:22,960 [Karen] How are you feeling? 126 00:06:23,039 --> 00:06:24,000 Good. 127 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:24,960 Yeah. 128 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:26,880 A bit nervous. 129 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,039 You showed quite a bit of vulnerability in the last session. 130 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,760 Yeah, I did. I did. 131 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:35,280 So cheating has become a bit of a norm for you. 132 00:06:35,359 --> 00:06:36,520 [Shay] Yeah. 133 00:06:36,599 --> 00:06:38,240 Kind of lost my best mate. 134 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:39,960 Wow. 135 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:45,919 How did that feel? 136 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,200 You know what? 'Cause I'm not really the emotional type, 137 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:51,240 so I feel like it was just… 138 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,680 I feel like it was just needed. Maybe I was holding on to that feeling. 139 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,440 You know, like I didn't really wanna let you know that's how I felt. 140 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,720 Do you know what I mean? The soft side. Yeah. 141 00:06:59,799 --> 00:07:03,359 'Cause I'm wondering how Mons felt about it. 142 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,200 Yeah, no, it was just good to see that she can be vulnerable. 143 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:08,000 You know, like, you have a… 144 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,080 Not that you don't have a heart, but you really have feelings. 145 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,280 So, yeah, I felt like it was really helpful 146 00:07:13,359 --> 00:07:15,840 in understanding her perspective of the relationship 147 00:07:15,919 --> 00:07:17,200 and how it made her feel. 148 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,760 I normally just, like, have a wall up, yeah. 149 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,239 And can you see how that wall can affect the connection between you two? 150 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:25,640 Yeah. 151 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:27,919 Is that new for you? 152 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,640 Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Yeah. 153 00:07:31,719 --> 00:07:33,599 Have you had a long-term relationship before? 154 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:35,440 I wouldn't say long-term. 155 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,479 -I'd say, like, two. -Girls or boys? 156 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:38,440 Girls. 157 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,359 [Karen] Always other gay, queer girls? 158 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:42,799 [Shay] Um, to be honest, 159 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,440 Monique's like, my first gay relationship. 160 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,200 Wow, mad. 161 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,440 First gay relationship? 162 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,799 -[Shay] Yeah. -Talk to me about that. 163 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,320 Um, I've just always gone out with girls that like guys, 164 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,400 to be honest. Yeah. 165 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:01,280 Why? 166 00:08:01,359 --> 00:08:03,359 I guess it's like a-- I don't know. I don't know. 167 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,400 I just feel like it's a cha-- Not a challenge. 168 00:08:06,479 --> 00:08:10,560 Because sometimes it's-- They will come to me. I'll go to them. 169 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,000 I think you like the idea of being the only woman 170 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,599 the girls has ever spoken to. 171 00:08:15,679 --> 00:08:17,400 -In that way? -[Mons] Yeah. 172 00:08:17,479 --> 00:08:20,960 So, it's like, "Oh, like, I clearly must be 'special' special, 173 00:08:21,039 --> 00:08:22,280 'cause you like guys." 174 00:08:22,359 --> 00:08:23,200 [Shay laughs] 175 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,919 "So if you like me now, then, like, 176 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,400 there's something about me that you wanna explore." 177 00:08:28,479 --> 00:08:30,880 -Yeah. Yeah. -So is that quite exciting? 178 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,640 [Shay] It is exciting. 179 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,360 But then, at the same time, it's very much… 180 00:08:35,439 --> 00:08:38,079 -It gets toxic. -Say more. 181 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:41,280 If I end up stepping out the relationship a few times, you know what I mean? 182 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,840 -What do you mean by "stepping out"? -As in, like, cheating, for an example. 183 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,600 They may just go and talk to a guy, 184 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:49,480 and then after that's been crossed, 185 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,800 I'm no longer interested. 186 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,000 And then that would just be my cue to… to go. 187 00:08:55,079 --> 00:08:58,199 But you've almost made that happen by stepping out. 188 00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,959 -Yeah. -[Karen] Mm-hmm. 189 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:01,800 So this is a bit of a pattern. 190 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:02,840 It is. 191 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,720 So, how does it feel to be in a longer-term relationship? 192 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,480 This is the longest you've ever been with somebody, isn't it? 193 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:10,400 Yeah. 194 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,079 Are you still working out what that means for both of you? 195 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:14,760 What is a relationship? 196 00:09:14,839 --> 00:09:18,600 Yeah, like, I'm still trying to find my balance on what it is. 197 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:19,920 For an example, 198 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,240 I like going out, 199 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,280 where, like, she'll be like… 200 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,160 I'm not sharing my time, basically, properly. 201 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,560 As in, like, remember that you're in a relationship… 202 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,480 -[Karen] Yes. -…and she needs her time. 203 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:34,280 And you're not just gonna go out to go and link your friends all the time. 204 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,839 -Prioritizing time for the relationship. -Yeah, yeah. 205 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,480 [Karen] Not just always prioritizing hanging out. 206 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:40,400 [Shay] Yeah. 207 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,680 [Karen] What about you, Mons? Does that leave you feeling lonely? 208 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,400 Sometimes, yeah, 100%. 209 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,959 'Cause now we've, like, moved out of ends. 210 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,480 Nothing's round the corner. 211 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:52,440 If I wanna go anywhere, it's an hour drive. 212 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,560 Like, it's just… 213 00:09:56,079 --> 00:09:58,440 -It gets boring. -[Karen] I'm interested, Mons. 214 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,320 All this time on your own, who do you talk to? 215 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,400 I don't know, like… 216 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,079 Do you know what? Like, I don't have any, like, long-term friends. 217 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,959 Like, she's got a big friendship group around her, 218 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,079 but I don't have a big group of people. 219 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,959 It's always been me and my mum, so I don't have siblings. 220 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,440 -Yes. -A pet. 221 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,400 I don't have anything in my house. It's literally been-- 222 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,360 So you're quite used to being "solo"? 223 00:10:22,959 --> 00:10:25,199 Yeah. But it is quite lonely. 224 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,360 Do you realize that Mons is lonely? 225 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,079 No. 226 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,240 Not really. No. 227 00:10:34,839 --> 00:10:38,480 -Because I say to her… -"Go out with your friends." 228 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:42,760 If she went out and she found her hobbies… 229 00:10:42,839 --> 00:10:46,640 because you're not out, and you choose not to go out with your friends, 230 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,040 obviously, you want my… my attention as well. 231 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,560 -Not 24/7. -[Shay] Yeah, but-- 232 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,800 If we had a date night scheduled every single month, 233 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,040 I know that's my day, that's my time, but we don't have that. 234 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,160 And if we do, the day will come, 235 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,040 "I've gotta go here. It's someone's birthday." 236 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,600 "I've gotta go there. I haven't seen them in ages." 237 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:05,160 Then it's just like it's no longer a priority. 238 00:11:06,079 --> 00:11:07,000 True? 239 00:11:07,079 --> 00:11:08,000 I guess so. 240 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,800 I didn't hear Mons asking for a lot there. 241 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,640 -[Shay] No. -One date night a month. 242 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,480 It's not a lot. 243 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:17,800 But did you hear also how Mons expects you to disappoint her? 244 00:11:19,199 --> 00:11:20,040 Ooh. 245 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,240 Yeah, that's deep. 246 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,040 I hear that. 247 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,520 Do you do that? 248 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,199 Yeah, I feel like you're committed to each other, for an example, 249 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,120 but at the same time, you don't forget yourself. 250 00:11:31,199 --> 00:11:32,440 [Karen] Yourself. 251 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,640 [Shay] Like, I just don't want her to, like, 252 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,120 forget who she was before me kind of thing. 253 00:11:38,199 --> 00:11:39,959 -[Karen] Yes. -You understand what I'm saying? 254 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:41,000 The balance. 255 00:11:41,079 --> 00:11:43,400 -[Shay] The balance. -It's the management of the balance. 256 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,320 Yeah. 257 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,680 I feel like I struggle with balance in a way where… 258 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,760 Yeah, I just think I end up all in too much. 259 00:11:50,839 --> 00:11:51,760 [Karen] Too much? 260 00:11:51,839 --> 00:11:53,800 -[Mons] Yeah. -It's called a merge. 261 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,160 You merge in too much and then you lose a bit of yourself. 262 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,600 -[Mons] Mm. -Is that how you're feeling? 263 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,440 [Mons] I'm reflecting on my relationships. 264 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,680 I've been like that in all of them. So I think it is something that I do. 265 00:12:07,199 --> 00:12:10,360 And the problem with that is that it can put pressure on your partner. 266 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:11,800 -It can. -I know. 267 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,320 And it can distort the relationship. 268 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,360 So the focus is entirely on the relationship 269 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,400 and lost on yourself. 270 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:21,480 Mm. 271 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,120 Yeah, no, that's… That's fair. 272 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:25,480 Yeah. 273 00:12:26,079 --> 00:12:26,920 Yeah. 274 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,000 [ambient music plays] 275 00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:33,920 I feel like we had to tap into Mons 276 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,000 to understand why 277 00:12:37,079 --> 00:12:39,440 she's very much attached to me. 278 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,480 I do feel a bit sad 279 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,040 that she feels like she doesn't have anyone to rely on 280 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,360 because I do feel like she does. 281 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:49,280 When I came here, 282 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,199 I mainly came here under the pretense that Shay's the problem. 283 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,040 But, um, I've learned today that I'm also a little bit of the problem. 284 00:12:56,959 --> 00:12:57,800 [Karen] Bye, both. 285 00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:58,959 -Take care. -Take care. 286 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,120 I feel like I need to work on my balance, 287 00:13:02,199 --> 00:13:05,640 and I need to work on not applying so much pressure on my relationship. 288 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,480 Strong relationships thrive on balance, 289 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:14,599 on both people having their own lives 290 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:17,280 and then bringing that into the couple. 291 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,320 Mons and Shay really illustrated 292 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,800 the dance between interdependence and autonomy, 293 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,760 and it wasn't quite right. 294 00:13:24,599 --> 00:13:26,959 Shay is incredibly independent. 295 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,680 Mons is more introvert 296 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,320 and has admitted to the fact 297 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,000 that actually she feels lonely within the couple. 298 00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:36,480 And so she's so dependent on Shay, 299 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,880 and it makes Shay feel very suffocated. 300 00:13:38,959 --> 00:13:43,480 Mons needs to build her own self and her own life. 301 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:45,839 Once Mons does that, 302 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,880 she will notice that Shay will come more into the couple. 303 00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:50,240 It's a bit of a balance thing. 304 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:51,520 [music ends] 305 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,560 ♪ I never believed ♪ 306 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,520 ♪ Turn around and love me ♪ 307 00:13:58,599 --> 00:14:00,280 ♪ The way I am ♪ 308 00:14:03,839 --> 00:14:06,280 ♪ I never believed ♪ 309 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,599 ♪ Someone will love me ♪ 310 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,880 What's happening, boys? Come through. How you doing? 311 00:14:15,959 --> 00:14:17,199 [man] Okay, then. 312 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:18,680 [music ends] 313 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,640 Here she is. This is our Q3, boys. 314 00:14:21,719 --> 00:14:23,440 -Uh, S line Sportback. -[Mike] Wow. 315 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,199 [salesman] Guys, get in the car, see how you feel about it. 316 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:27,199 [engine starting] 317 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,319 -[Dwayne] Mm. -[Mike] Smooth. 318 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:31,760 [engine dying] 319 00:14:32,479 --> 00:14:35,240 -Me and Yas have been going to therapy. -Okay. 320 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,319 -When we were in the therapy session… -Yeah? 321 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,760 …I told her that I lost my job. 322 00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:42,439 And I've lost it more than a month ago, nearly two months ago. 323 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,599 -[exclaims] -I've been pretending to go to work. 324 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:45,880 I've been made redundant. 325 00:14:46,479 --> 00:14:48,760 I can't even look at you right now. I can't. 326 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,839 It's embarrassing to say, but, literally, I'll dress up like I'm going to work. 327 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,079 -We leave the house around the same time. -[inhales sharply] 328 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,360 And then I'll literally circle round, 329 00:14:58,439 --> 00:15:00,280 and as long as she's gone to work, 330 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,959 I'll just circle back home. 331 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,599 After that, obviously, 332 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,920 I've got a massive bit of money being made redundant. 333 00:15:08,439 --> 00:15:10,560 -Okay. -So I do feel like 334 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,880 having that amount of money has gassed me up. 335 00:15:13,959 --> 00:15:14,880 It would, naturally. 336 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,959 Like, she's telling me, "Get a job, don't do that, 337 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,640 make sure you pay the debts, and make sure you do this and do that." 338 00:15:20,719 --> 00:15:23,120 I'm thinking, "It's my money. I get to do what I like with it." 339 00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:25,319 -Bro… -I feel like I can make it work. 340 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,400 [upbeat music plays] 341 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,199 [Karen] Money can be a contentious issue within a couple. 342 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,880 If Mike can learn to manage his financial stability, 343 00:15:37,959 --> 00:15:43,280 can the trust and the intimacy that he so craves be rebuilt? 344 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,120 [Yasmin] Hello. 345 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,000 [Karen] Hi, Yasmin. Hi, Mike. Sit yourselves down. 346 00:15:49,079 --> 00:15:50,160 [music ends] 347 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:51,800 [Karen] You said in the last session 348 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,920 that you're going to use the redundancy money 349 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,439 to get yourselves straight. 350 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,880 Has anything happened since the last session? 351 00:15:58,719 --> 00:16:02,439 So I have paid off one credit card, 352 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:03,959 and Yas has seen it. 353 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,560 She's obviously still on my back for not paying off the rest, 354 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,640 but given time-- 355 00:16:09,719 --> 00:16:13,160 Not too much. I'm not on your back too much. 356 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,359 I'm just keeping the plan in your mind. 357 00:16:15,439 --> 00:16:16,920 Going in the right direction. 358 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,760 What's your resistance to it? 359 00:16:20,359 --> 00:16:21,199 [exhales] 360 00:16:22,079 --> 00:16:23,560 It might sound silly, 361 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,560 but it's enjoying having a lot of money sitting in the bank 362 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:28,439 for the first time. 363 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,040 That seeing that amount is actually a nice feeling. 364 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,760 Maybe it makes me feel taller, stronger, faster. 365 00:16:34,839 --> 00:16:37,160 So we've tapped into something there, haven't we? 366 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,599 Yes. 367 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,839 Your vision of how you want to be seen 368 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,000 in terms of your… 369 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,160 your family and your status. 370 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,719 I do believe that money does make the man. 371 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,959 Traditionally and instinctively, 372 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,359 if you can provide resources in excess 373 00:16:54,439 --> 00:16:56,439 for yourself, for your missus, 374 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,240 for your children, and maybe extended family, 375 00:16:59,319 --> 00:17:01,839 then it does make you the guy. 376 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,480 Yeah, but it puts a crazy amount of pressure on you. 377 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,839 [Mike] She forgot, on our first date, she pulled up in a Q2, a new Audi Q2. 378 00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:12,720 -Yeah. -And pulled up next to my beat-up Corsa. 379 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,319 And you're telling-- How did you feel in that car? 380 00:17:15,399 --> 00:17:19,319 I didn't look at your Corsa and go, "That's shit. I'm not coming on the date." 381 00:17:19,399 --> 00:17:20,560 -Well, I-- -[Yasmin laughs] 382 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,079 Did you hear that? 383 00:17:22,159 --> 00:17:24,200 She didn't look at the Corsa and say-- 384 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:25,800 Because she was being nice. 385 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,399 Nice, or it really doesn't matter to her? 386 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,720 Because I'm still here five years later, with a child, 387 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,840 living with you. [chuckles] 388 00:17:34,919 --> 00:17:37,360 But what does the car mean for you, Mike? What-- 389 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,080 I think it means status, it means a little bit of power, 390 00:17:40,159 --> 00:17:42,560 it means a little bit of confidence. It gives you that boost. 391 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,000 It makes you feel a little bit better about yourself. 392 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,120 So cars are a sort of a-- They're… They're a message to the world. 393 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,120 -"Here I am. I've arrived." -Yeah. [exhales] 394 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,040 Don't get mad at me, basically, 395 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:00,440 but… 396 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:06,360 Um, so I went to an Audi showroom the other day. 397 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,360 I, uh, 398 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,560 started inquiring about a Q3. 399 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,280 I took it for a test drive first. 400 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,560 And I'll be honest with you, it was an unreal experience. 401 00:18:28,159 --> 00:18:29,480 Because I love her 402 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,399 and because I know the right thing to do. 403 00:18:33,159 --> 00:18:35,760 -I didn't sign those papers. -That was the right answer. 404 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,240 Because my, my, my chest… 405 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,720 I would've said, "You've got a 28-day cooling-off period." 406 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,919 That you need to go and unsign anything and get your money back. 407 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,919 I was looking where the water was. I thought she was gonna chuck it at me. 408 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,880 It was just… I have to use my sense at the end of the day. 409 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,840 I've got stuff to pay for. I've got bills to pay for. 410 00:18:54,919 --> 00:18:59,360 But I kid you not, I was so close to putting pen to paper. 411 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,440 How do you feel now 412 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,040 that you actually didn't go with the impulse to buy? 413 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:07,720 It feels good 414 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,040 'cause it makes me feel like I'm in control. 415 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,800 It makes me feel like I'm using my sense, 416 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,640 I'm being an adult, not a boy. 417 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,600 It's making you feel like a man, 418 00:19:16,679 --> 00:19:19,360 that you're actually able to say no sometimes. 419 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,520 -[Mike] Yeah. -[Karen] And resist that temptation. 420 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:25,200 -How does it leave you feeling? -Don't know why you're looking at me. 421 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,000 I don't wanna have to look after my partner. 422 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,919 You know, it's a partnership. We're meant to be equal. 423 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,120 I don't wanna have to look after him or mind him. 424 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,880 But how much do you look after and mind? 425 00:19:37,399 --> 00:19:38,560 I think I do a lot, 426 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,679 and I think it's because I've got a big heart. 427 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,320 So I know that-- 428 00:19:43,399 --> 00:19:45,200 A… A big heart? 429 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,000 Or you can't stand not doing it? 430 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,560 -[Mike] That's-- -Maybe both. 431 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,040 I think you actually get pleasure from being in control 432 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:54,840 because you can't let things go. 433 00:19:54,919 --> 00:19:57,640 You can't let things go without being in control of things. 434 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,000 You're definitely like that. 435 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,560 Okay, let's… let's have a think about that, Yasmin. 436 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,760 What is that control about? 437 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:09,040 -Making sure things are done properly. -Nah. 438 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,840 -Let's go into the-- -No, when it comes to time-- 439 00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:13,919 [Karen] No, no, not time, just control. 440 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,480 Keeping tabs, making sure he does things, 441 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,080 doing too much. 442 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,600 -[Mike] You're burning out. -It's learned behavior. 443 00:20:22,679 --> 00:20:24,000 -Know what I mean? -[Karen] Okay. 444 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,800 -I've-- That's all I've seen. -But what effect does it have? 445 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:28,280 Yeah, it's tiring. 446 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,480 -It's exhausting for you, and? -[Yasmin] Yeah. 447 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,640 -Burning yourself out. -Annoying for him. 448 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,240 Well, it emasculates him. 449 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,720 Mm. 450 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,240 I'm trying to be the mum, the wife, everything for everyone. 451 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:42,800 And I didn't actually think that 452 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,120 that could take away from anyone's sense of self. 453 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,399 It's the first time I've thought about it like that. 454 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,840 Sometimes, in order to be a proper couple, you have to pull back a bit 455 00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:54,320 because he'd be allowed to make more effort. 456 00:20:54,399 --> 00:20:58,000 And maybe that would help your intimacy issues. 457 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,120 -True. -Yeah. 458 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,120 -So both of you in your lanes. -Yeah. 459 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,679 [Karen] And then coming together. 460 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,040 -[Yasmin] Yeah. -And connecting. 461 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,720 -You wanted to say like an avatar. -[Karen] Sorry? 462 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,200 -[laughs] He wanted to say like an avatar. -An avatar. 463 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,560 -You connect your tail to the animal. -When they put their ponytail… 464 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,520 Okay, guys, it's been a pleasure to work with you. 465 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,280 I really hope this has been helpful. 466 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:22,440 -It has. Thank you so much. -It has. Thank you. 467 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,000 Thank you both. And good luck. 468 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:24,960 -Thank you. -Thank you. 469 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,760 -Take care. -[Karen] Thank you. 470 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,399 Karen, she's really helped us to break down 471 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,080 some of the walls we were building up. 472 00:21:31,159 --> 00:21:34,560 ♪ What would I do without you? ♪ 473 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,000 Listening is key, which I think can sometimes get lost 474 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,360 when you've been in a relationship with someone for a while. 475 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,360 Let's go home. 476 00:21:42,919 --> 00:21:43,960 Yeah? 477 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:52,439 Money isn't always what makes the man. Karen has definitely made me see that. 478 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,200 -[Mike] There you go. -[Yasmin] Thank you. 479 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,880 At first, I was a little bit wary about therapy in general. 480 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:04,000 But I may consider having therapy in the future. 481 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,679 ♪ What would I do without you? ♪ 482 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:07,960 [engine revving] 483 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,120 ♪ What would I do without you? ♪ 484 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,000 [song ends] 485 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,040 ["Down to Business" by Alexandre Clouzard, Eva Rawlings & Skip Armstrong plays] 486 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,679 ♪ Let's get down, down Getting down to business… ♪ 487 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,120 [birds chirping] 488 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,240 ♪ I'm not running for the fitness ♪ 489 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,280 ♪ Let's get down, down, down Down on my hit list ♪ 490 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,880 ♪ Let's get down, down, down to business ♪ 491 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,679 ♪ Do what you gotta do What you gotta do ♪ 492 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,000 ♪ Do what you gotta Let's get down to ♪ 493 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:38,919 [song ends] 494 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,360 -[Karen] Hello, you two. How are you? -[Junior] Hi. 495 00:22:41,439 --> 00:22:42,360 [Carmen] Yeah, good. 496 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,120 Last session was interesting. [chuckles] 497 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,760 Very interesting. It was good. 498 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,960 I was quite taken aback and surprised 499 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,720 by what ended up coming out. 500 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,919 The thing that has caused me a lot of hurt 501 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,919 is the way she asked me for a divorce on my birthday. 502 00:22:59,439 --> 00:23:00,679 You all right, Junior? 503 00:23:04,919 --> 00:23:07,439 I think, off the back of that session, 504 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,919 I kind of have realized a lot of things. 505 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,960 We both understand each other now, 506 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,880 so I'm glad that that came out, to be honest. 507 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,520 I-- I feel better about the whole situation now. 508 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,200 Well done. Well done. 509 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,080 So the homework. 510 00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:23,919 -Did you do it? -Yeah. 511 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,000 -Yeah. -[Karen] Yeah? 512 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,919 I'm gonna go through the questions, 513 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,520 and then you can tell me what your answers were. 514 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:30,439 Okay. 515 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,640 [Karen] "When do you feel most appreciated by me?" 516 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:34,320 Junior? 517 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,320 "I feel most appreciated when you look into my eyes 518 00:23:38,399 --> 00:23:40,840 and pay attention to me 519 00:23:40,919 --> 00:23:42,080 and focus on me." 520 00:23:42,159 --> 00:23:43,320 "When you tell me you love me 521 00:23:43,399 --> 00:23:46,200 and you recognize what I do for you and the family." 522 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,120 Okay. 523 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,520 Do you want to respond? What's yours? 524 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,360 I feel most appreciated if he, like, brings up to me, 525 00:23:53,439 --> 00:23:57,880 "Oh, thank you for this," or, "Well done for that." 526 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,800 I feel like I probably get that maybe, like, once a month. 527 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,200 -[Karen] Once a month? -Okay. 528 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,240 [Carmen] Yeah. 529 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,159 So, 530 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,800 what's interesting about those two responses? 531 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,200 -I think they're quite similar. -[Karen] Exactly, Junior. 532 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,000 Neither of you feel appreciated. 533 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,880 And it's a shared dynamic. 534 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,280 "What do you miss most about how we used to connect?" 535 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:28,840 So he tends not to always answer his phone when he's out, 536 00:24:28,919 --> 00:24:30,640 and that's an issue for me. 537 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,360 A couple of weeks ago, um, he'd gone out, and… 538 00:24:35,439 --> 00:24:38,200 -Is this work or social? -[Carmen] This was for work. 539 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,360 -Okay? Um… -It's always for work. 540 00:24:40,439 --> 00:24:44,080 [Carmen] He was supposed to come home. Tried calling him for a good two hours 541 00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:47,280 because as far as I was aware, he was supposed to finish at one. 542 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,240 And he called me, it must have been about three o'clock, 543 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,320 and he was at somebody's house. And for me, that's totally fine. 544 00:24:54,399 --> 00:24:57,720 Like, if you need to stay out, that's fine, but let me know. 545 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,640 What does that leave you thinking? 546 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,320 Um… 547 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,240 I mean, I hate to say it, because… 548 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:11,880 I just don't really like this kind of energy on our relationship, but… 549 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,159 Can you look at me when I'm talking to you? 550 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,880 Sometimes, it makes me feel insecure, and it makes me feel like you might have… 551 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:22,880 [clicks tongue] 552 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,320 [exhales] I just-- I don't know if there's, like, 553 00:25:28,199 --> 00:25:29,439 something else out there, or… 554 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,159 Something else like what? 555 00:25:33,199 --> 00:25:35,520 Sometimes I feel mistrusting of you. 556 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,600 So you're making accusations again, basically? 557 00:25:38,679 --> 00:25:41,800 Actually, actually, hold on a minute. 558 00:25:42,679 --> 00:25:45,760 Carmen's saying how she's feeling, not making accusations. 559 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,600 And actually, she was really careful not to do that. 560 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,520 She's been really open 561 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,919 and explained that, actually, sometimes your absences 562 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,000 tap into her insecurity. 563 00:25:57,919 --> 00:25:59,679 So there's no accusations there. 564 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,439 Carmen's talking about herself 565 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,320 and how some of the behaviors trigger her. 566 00:26:04,919 --> 00:26:05,800 Carmen, 567 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,520 you have a choice to trust me or not. 568 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,640 Like, I've told you time and time again that I'm not doing anything. 569 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,480 You've been through my phone a million times, 570 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,960 and you've not discovered anything untoward. 571 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,520 So all this paranoia of, 572 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,760 "Oh, you're not picking up the phone, so, what are you doing?" 573 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,399 Maybe I'm having fun with my friends or with my work colleagues, 574 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,880 and maybe that fun does not include another female 575 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,520 doing something that is against the rules of our relationship. 576 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,840 -This is exactly the-- -You know? Trust is a choice. 577 00:26:36,919 --> 00:26:40,240 What you're doing right now is exactly what I'm trying to explain. 578 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,720 Like, you're not getting it, like-- It's about how I feel inside, 579 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,280 how you make me feel when you do certain things. 580 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:53,640 Hold on, stay with that a moment. It is about how Carmen feels. 581 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,280 Now you've just been a bit dismissive of that 582 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,000 and said that she's not really allowed to feel like that. 583 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,679 That's a bit unempathic. 584 00:27:01,199 --> 00:27:04,640 -Okay. -[Karen] 'Cause your wife feels insecure. 585 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,480 And is there anything you could do in a compassionate way 586 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,199 to help her feel more comfortable? 587 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,679 I'm happy to give Carmen more attention if that's what she feels like she needs. 588 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,000 I more just want you to be respectful of 589 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,240 what I'm asking, 590 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,240 which is to just communicate more. 591 00:27:24,439 --> 00:27:27,240 I want to work through these issues 592 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:29,880 and move forward 593 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,320 and grow our family even more. 594 00:27:33,399 --> 00:27:36,679 He went and did something 595 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,640 that I did not agree to at all. 596 00:27:40,399 --> 00:27:43,640 Um, and there was just no conversation about it. 597 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,520 -When? -I just found out a few weeks ago. 598 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,600 -What is it? -Do you want to tell Karen what you did? 599 00:27:48,679 --> 00:27:50,280 I had a vasectomy 600 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,960 because I felt like, um… 601 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:53,919 [sighs] 602 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,280 …I was not ready to have any more kids, and… 603 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,240 You know, when we broke up and we separated, 604 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,280 it was surrounding this subject. 605 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,960 This is, like, a major life decision. Like, you can't just do that. 606 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,760 I did tell you that I was thinking about it. 607 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,880 You told me you were thinking about it, but you can't do something like that. 608 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,640 Well, it's-- Carmen, it's my body. 609 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:21,199 If I have chosen that I do not want to have any more children in this moment, 610 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,439 then I think that I should be entitled to make that decision. 611 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:26,960 The reason why I went to do it, 612 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,760 without specifically informing you I'm gonna go and do this on this day, 613 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,959 is because I know that it's gonna… 614 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,880 It was-- It would've blown up and become a whole thing, 615 00:28:35,959 --> 00:28:39,520 and your whole motive would've been to stop me from doing it. 616 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,640 This is ju-- It's just not okay for me. 617 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,159 Like, this is-- This is a major, major issue for me. 618 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,840 You're so pushy with the subject, Carmen. 619 00:28:46,919 --> 00:28:49,399 -I'm not pushy. -It makes me feel very uncomfortable. 620 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,800 I don't like being told what to do. I don't like being told when to do it. 621 00:28:52,879 --> 00:28:54,959 -You're very pushy with this subject. -Listen-- 622 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,120 I really wanna have that fourth child, and that's what it is. 623 00:28:58,199 --> 00:29:00,240 We've had this conversation many times. 624 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,919 For him now to have done something like this 625 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,959 leads me to believe that, like, I've been led on all this time. 626 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,919 That you don't-- That you actually don't wanna have a fourth child, 627 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,120 and for me, that is a major issue. 628 00:29:13,199 --> 00:29:14,120 Yeah, I get that. 629 00:29:14,199 --> 00:29:18,120 Like, yes, we had the conversation about him, you know, freezing… 630 00:29:18,199 --> 00:29:20,879 You know, you can freeze your sperm and whatnot. 631 00:29:20,959 --> 00:29:23,240 Um, and that way we can still have kids, 632 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,280 which, as far as I knew, I thought you was on the same page as me. 633 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,919 I thought you also wanted to have more kids. I don't get it. 634 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,120 It's done, the vasectomy is done, 635 00:29:33,199 --> 00:29:35,520 but the sperm is stored and you can have a baby. 636 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,520 -Yeah. -It's a matter of timing for you, Junior? 637 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,760 Um… Yeah, I mean, that's something else that we need to talk about. 638 00:29:44,399 --> 00:29:45,439 What'd you mean? 639 00:29:47,199 --> 00:29:51,120 It's something that I haven't told Carmen, that, um, 640 00:29:52,199 --> 00:29:56,520 I haven't really been able to find a way and a time to tell her. 641 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,360 [tense music plays] 642 00:30:00,879 --> 00:30:04,639 Unfortunately, I wasn't able to freeze my sperm. 643 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:08,800 Like, what do you mean? 644 00:30:08,879 --> 00:30:11,000 So, now having a fourth child's not even an option? 645 00:30:12,439 --> 00:30:14,080 I'm sorry, Carmen. I tried. 646 00:30:14,159 --> 00:30:16,919 [music intensifies] 647 00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:21,919 [dramatic music plays] 648 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000 [music continues] 649 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,720 [music ends] ues]