1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,920 [melancholy music plays] 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,639 [Junior] It's something that I haven't told Carmen, that, um, 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,759 I haven't really been able to find a way and a time to tell her. 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:18,279 Unfortunately, 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,560 I wasn't able to freeze my sperm. 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:24,720 Like, what do you mean? 7 00:00:24,799 --> 00:00:26,920 So what, now having a fourth child's not even an option? 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,000 I'm sorry, Carmen. I tried. 9 00:00:36,879 --> 00:00:41,400 I didn't mean to hold this information back from her. 10 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:42,600 Unfortunately, 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,919 I wasn't able to freeze my sperm, as planned, 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,599 um, because of a scheduling issue. 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,840 So now, here we are. 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,840 -Some things went wrong-- -[Carmen] Wait, wait, wait. 15 00:00:59,199 --> 00:01:00,760 [exhales] 16 00:01:00,839 --> 00:01:05,039 You specifically told me the other day, when we had this conversation 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,440 that you had froze your sperm. 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,399 So now you're telling me that you lied to me 19 00:01:11,479 --> 00:01:14,800 and now we can't even have another child? Is that what you're telling me? 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,040 -I tried. I tried. There was a prob-- -Nah, I can't. I can't. 21 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:20,680 I can't. 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:22,399 This is not fair. 23 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:24,600 -This is not fair. -Carmen. 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,520 [Carmen] I literally cannot do this. 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,880 This is not okay. 26 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:32,000 [Junior] I don't wanna have kids right now and I've made that clear to you. 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,920 And you know that our relationship can't handle any more pressure, 28 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,839 which is why we're in therapy. 29 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,040 So I just feel like you're not being realistic, Carmen. 30 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:45,800 [sighs] 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,839 Traditionally, women control things when it comes to the kids and having them, 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,399 and now I just feel like the position that I'm in right now 33 00:01:54,479 --> 00:01:56,000 is this is my body, 34 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,759 and having more kids 35 00:01:57,839 --> 00:02:01,440 needs to be my decision as well as hers. 36 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:07,800 So, you know, I've done this to take control of my future. 37 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:11,799 [Carmen sobs] 38 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,880 -[Junior] Are you all right? -Just get off me. Stop. 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,440 -I'm sorry, Carmen. -Just-- No, stop. Get off me. 40 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:21,840 [Carmen exhales] 41 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,920 [inhales] Where do you think this leaves you both? 42 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,000 [Latin trap music plays] 43 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,720 I was just hoping that this will put us in a position 44 00:02:29,799 --> 00:02:31,600 where we can focus on me and her. 45 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,799 I don't know if I can move forward from this. 46 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,320 Maybe you two need to readjust 47 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,959 to a new reality. 48 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:39,239 [sighs] 49 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,440 [music ends] 50 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:53,920 [birds chirping] 51 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,200 So you wanted to take back control, Junior, 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,080 but ultimately… 53 00:03:00,959 --> 00:03:05,799 have you lost control if Carmen feels as devastated as she does? 54 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:06,840 ["Deep End" plays] 55 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:09,320 [Carmen] I personally cannot see 56 00:03:09,399 --> 00:03:12,440 how I can move past something as big as this. 57 00:03:12,959 --> 00:03:18,600 Like, if you cannot inform me about a decision like this, 58 00:03:18,679 --> 00:03:22,160 like, how-- Like, how am I supposed to trust you with anything else? 59 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,080 I don't even know if I even wanna come back here, to be honest, 60 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:28,000 to these sessions. 61 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,720 Like, I just don't know if I'm ready for any of this 62 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:34,679 after what he's just told me. 63 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,760 ["Deep End" continues] 64 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,959 Power dynamics are a difficult area for many of the couples that I work with, 65 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,280 whether one partner takes control of key decisions… 66 00:03:52,679 --> 00:03:55,560 where control is used to avoid vulnerability… 67 00:03:58,799 --> 00:04:02,239 or how resentment can build from feeling unheard or dismissed. 68 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,239 [Viktor] There's a pool right there. 69 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,079 [man] Oh, that's nice, yeah. 70 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,519 One thing is clear. 71 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,039 A healthy balance of power is essential for any relationship to survive. 72 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,599 ♪ Everything we wearin' It be top dollar ♪ 73 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,560 ♪ Baby, I'm a star, I'm a shot-caller ♪ 74 00:04:24,479 --> 00:04:27,520 ♪ Pull up in the drop top With a popped collar ♪ 75 00:04:27,599 --> 00:04:30,800 ♪ Tryna holler at my honey Homey, don't bother ♪ 76 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:31,880 ♪ That's my girl ♪ 77 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,000 [Karen] Welcome back. 78 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,680 -Thank you. -Thank you. 79 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,599 So before we start, I thought I'd do a little bit of a recap 80 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,440 of actually how the session went last time. 81 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:50,400 [inhales] 82 00:04:50,479 --> 00:04:52,200 The distrust… 83 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:54,880 -Yeah. Mm-hmm. -[Karen] …that both of you seem to share. 84 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:55,800 Yeah. 85 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,280 And then, of course, we finished off with the exercise, 86 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,680 which, sort of, you spoke to each other very truthfully 87 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,960 about the kiss and the possible dating. 88 00:05:06,039 --> 00:05:07,039 Hm. 89 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,039 -Yeah. -Yeah. 90 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,760 You showed quite a lot of vulnerability. 91 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:11,800 Yeah. 92 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,120 [Jay] The date I lied about? 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:15,840 I said 94 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,680 nothing happened, but… 95 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:25,120 we did kiss. 96 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,919 [sniffles, exhales] 97 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,240 [sniffles, exhales] 98 00:05:32,039 --> 00:05:34,880 Okay, cool, we'd organized the date, whatever, 99 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,000 but I didn't-- I didn't have the heart to really follow through with it. 100 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,520 But you actually did. 101 00:05:39,599 --> 00:05:43,280 And not just that, you also went ahead and kissed her. 102 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,560 How did you feel afterwards? 103 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,320 It actually felt good to just let it out, 104 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,280 but to be honest, 105 00:05:53,359 --> 00:05:55,479 it would've felt great if he cried too. 106 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,200 I feel like it's not fair that I've been the one in tears. 107 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,440 I feel like we should get some tears out of you. 108 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,479 -Bad man don't cry, man. -[both laugh] 109 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,039 -Bad man don't cry. -Bad man don't cry. 110 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,880 Hopefully, we can get him crying. 111 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,800 But why? Do you think that showing that level of vulnerability 112 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,320 is… is… is too dangerous for you, or… 113 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,200 Why do you want to even it up? 114 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,440 I don't know. I'm just… I'm a vengeful person. 115 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,240 -[Jay] She's tit-for-tat person. -Ventual? 116 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,760 -Vengeful. She-- Yeah. -[Karen] Venge… Oh. 117 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:24,520 -She's very tit-for-tat. -[Daisy] Yeah. 118 00:06:24,599 --> 00:06:26,479 You don't trust people. 119 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,240 I don't really trust anyone. 120 00:06:30,479 --> 00:06:32,240 [Karen] But what about you and vulnerability? 121 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,520 Here we are inviting Daisy to be able to show her vulnerability. 122 00:06:35,599 --> 00:06:38,000 What's this "bad men don't cry"? 123 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,599 -[Jay] Yeah. -[Karen] Come on. 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,440 What's that-- What does that mean? 125 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,680 [sighs] I just feel like it's not really the best thing to be vulnerable as a guy. 126 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,320 It just-- It feels like more of a stigma where, 127 00:06:48,919 --> 00:06:52,680 "Oh, try not to be emotional if you can be." If you get what I mean. 128 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,440 Don't mind him. This man cries all the time. 129 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:55,640 [Jay] No, I don't. 130 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,560 -[Daisy] I'm the one he will cry around. -Not… What? 131 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,479 That makes you feel comfortable though? 132 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,840 That he does trust you enough to cry around you? 133 00:07:02,919 --> 00:07:04,280 Yeah, I feel like… 134 00:07:04,359 --> 00:07:05,919 Yeah, I feel good about that. 135 00:07:08,039 --> 00:07:11,120 What about parenting styles? You said it was really hard to trust 136 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,599 and that you've got a defense system in place. 137 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,320 -Yeah. -[Karen] What about around Alora? 138 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,799 Does that come into play or not? 139 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,239 [Daisy] I don't like getting emotional in front of her. 140 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,120 I feel like, um, I kind of try to put on a strong front, 141 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,840 almost because I feel like that's how my mum was. 142 00:07:26,919 --> 00:07:29,520 And what about children? Are you going to have more children? 143 00:07:31,039 --> 00:07:31,880 Yes. 144 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,960 No. We're not having more kids. 145 00:07:35,479 --> 00:07:39,599 -We are. We are. We are. -I think I'm happy with my daughter. 146 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:41,200 -But-- -We're not just ha-- 147 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,400 Honestly, then this needs to be discussed. 148 00:07:43,479 --> 00:07:46,440 -Yeah, it does. -Because for me, like, I'm not willing to. 149 00:07:49,159 --> 00:07:54,080 I kind of see myself getting my life back, um, and just being a bit more selfish, 150 00:07:54,159 --> 00:07:57,760 and he sees himself becoming even more of a family man. 151 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,960 But ultimately, I'm just hoping that that isn't a deal-breaker 152 00:08:02,039 --> 00:08:05,599 and that we can both, like, compromise to a degree. 153 00:08:06,479 --> 00:08:08,239 [Karen] What if Daisy stays like this? 154 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,960 We've had this discussion before we had… before we had Alora. 155 00:08:12,039 --> 00:08:15,679 We always said we want to have a family of, like, three, potentially four. 156 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,080 -But that was ignorance. -[Jay] No, it wasn't ignorance. 157 00:08:18,159 --> 00:08:19,640 It's like me saying… 158 00:08:19,719 --> 00:08:22,120 It's like me gi-- It's like me telling you, 159 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,320 "Okay, cool, I wanna get married in two years." 160 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,880 And then when two years does come, 161 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,640 I'm telling you I made that decision out of ignorance. 162 00:08:29,719 --> 00:08:31,000 It makes you feel led on. 163 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,120 We've always said we'd wanna have, like, three, potentially four. 164 00:08:35,199 --> 00:08:36,959 -But that was before… -There isn't-- 165 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,600 …I understood what it means to be a parent. 166 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,000 -And also to be a parent with you. -[Jay] Nah. Yeah, but-- 167 00:08:43,079 --> 00:08:46,600 Okay, talk to me about that. What's parenting with Jay like? 168 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:51,520 Just a bit-- It's like having an assistant rather than having an equal. 169 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,280 And I… I didn't know that that's how parenting would be. 170 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:57,680 Most-- Just wait. 171 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,959 But that just means you were delusional about what you thought parenting was. 172 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,360 -I don't want any more kids. -[Jay] Do you think-- 173 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,880 I just wanna live life like a normal human again. 174 00:09:07,959 --> 00:09:11,079 She just wants to keep her "snatched waist" and doesn't want… 175 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,760 -Listen, it's not about my body, but-- -[Jay] Yes, it is. 176 00:09:13,839 --> 00:09:14,880 It's hard work, 177 00:09:14,959 --> 00:09:18,199 and I feel like him being so optimistic about having more kids 178 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,880 just shows that it's not hard work for him. [laughs] 179 00:09:20,959 --> 00:09:22,520 -It is. -[Daisy] That's probably because… 180 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,520 Are you hearing it's hard work for her? 181 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,560 It's also hard work for me 'cause I do 50% of what you do. 182 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,640 But I wonder if-- I'm gonna give you some homework. 183 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,440 I wonder if that might help you work some of this stuff out. 184 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,000 -[Jay] Cool. -Okay. 185 00:09:35,079 --> 00:09:36,480 [soft music plays] 186 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,079 [Karen] You do this in private first, 187 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,800 and then we can bring it to the session and we'll discuss it. 188 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:41,720 Okay. 189 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,880 "What is working in this relationship that I still deeply value?" 190 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,800 "If nothing changes, 191 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,360 can I live with this relationship long-term?" 192 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:55,520 Okay? 193 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,199 -Cool. -Those are some deep questions. 194 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,280 -[Karen] That's what I'm talking about. -[Jay] Good questions. Not gonna lie. 195 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,400 Really good questions. 196 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,240 All right, well, we'll call this session to an end now. 197 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,360 -[Jay] Okay. -Okay. 198 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,440 -[Karen] Thank you both. -Thank you so much, Karen. 199 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,800 -Appreciate it. Yeah. -[Karen] See you next time. Bye-bye. 200 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,400 -[Jay] Bye. -[Daisy] Bye-bye. 201 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,640 [Jay] I would say today's session has been progressive. 202 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,720 Progressive, but it was always planned we were gonna have about three, four kids, 203 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,920 and now she's gone through it, she's… she's trying to switch up. 204 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,880 I need me a couple more Jays in the house. 205 00:10:25,959 --> 00:10:30,160 So I don't know what she's talking about, but we're not stopping at one. 206 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,560 [music ends] 207 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,280 [R&B music plays] 208 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,520 ♪ I just really want you to say yes ♪ 209 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,800 ♪ I just really want you to say yes ♪ 210 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,880 I actually like this one. 211 00:10:44,959 --> 00:10:46,199 What do you think? 212 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,160 Oh, this one's so cute. 213 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,360 No, I look like a disco ball. 214 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:51,720 [laughs] 215 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:55,400 [music ends] 216 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,160 -[Viktor] Have a seat. -[man] Oh, that's a nice view. Look at it. 217 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,079 Yeah. 218 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,680 That's that London scenery. 219 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,280 [man] So how you've been, man? 220 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,520 [Viktor] Very busy. Business is going good. 221 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,680 Me and Maria, like, this is what we do. 222 00:11:09,199 --> 00:11:12,160 But, yeah, I wanted to tell you something big. 223 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,480 Uh, me and Maria have decided to start therapy. 224 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:18,560 Oh, really? 225 00:11:19,199 --> 00:11:22,400 So Maria's reason for us to be-- for us to be there is, 226 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,680 like, you know, we've been together for seven years. 227 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,320 It's a bit-- It's a bit untypical for us not to be married. 228 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,280 Thank you so much. 229 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:31,839 -[Viktor] Thank you. -You're welcome. 230 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,160 From day one, I explained to her it's not about getting married. 231 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:36,520 It's not about the ring. 232 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,040 -That doesn't make it real. -[Todor] Mmm. 233 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,199 Real love is not marriage. 234 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,520 [Todor] Do you love Maria? 235 00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:47,920 That's my person. I found… I found her. 236 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:50,800 But then what stops you? 237 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:52,160 It's just 238 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,959 it almost feels like everyone around me needs me to change. 239 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:57,640 -Mm. -[Viktor] All I-- 240 00:11:57,719 --> 00:12:00,040 But all I want is to be accepted for who I am. 241 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,600 Ever since I was a little kid. 242 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,920 'Cause I didn't get it at home, I didn't get it in school, I didn't get it… 243 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,240 Do you know what I mean? 244 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,440 [Todor] Uh, I just didn't know. 245 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,079 I didn't know what it is to be a father, so I had to learn. 246 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,160 So now… now I get your point. 247 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,240 So, what about you understanding Maria, how she feels? 248 00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:25,600 And if you really love her, 249 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:28,680 what about making this for her, 250 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:29,959 not for yourself? 251 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,400 To sacrifice your point of view for the sake of someone that you love. 252 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,520 ["Be Mine" by Naomi August plays] 253 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,520 [Maria] I won't lie to you, being in this setting like this, 254 00:12:45,599 --> 00:12:48,120 seeing you in the dress and everything else like that, 255 00:12:48,199 --> 00:12:50,480 it just makes me think about my own situation 256 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:54,120 and, like, how I would've liked to have been doing this. You know? 257 00:12:54,199 --> 00:12:56,199 You've only been with your man for less than a year. 258 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:57,719 I've been with mine for seven years. 259 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,480 Like, you would think that I would already be doing these sort of type of things. 260 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:03,160 And it just makes me feel a bit sad. 261 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,400 If-- If it was me… 262 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:05,400 [Maria] Yeah. 263 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:06,680 …I would've walked away. 264 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,240 It's so easy to say though. It's so easy to say. 265 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,240 You have to think of the fact 266 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,400 that Viktor and I literally have a business together. 267 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,440 We earn our money together through social media. 268 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:19,560 [exhales] 269 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,719 Viktor doesn't seem to be a man that's worth making you feel like this. 270 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,440 Like, he's a good guy, but after such a long time, 271 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,880 I just feel like you shouldn't be at this stage still. 272 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,839 My heart tells me one thing, but my head's telling me another. 273 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,000 What would you advise me if I was in that situation? 274 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:38,520 Anybody that you care about, what would you, like-- 275 00:13:38,599 --> 00:13:39,680 What you doing? 276 00:13:40,959 --> 00:13:41,880 [sniffles] 277 00:13:41,959 --> 00:13:43,959 The same shit you're saying to me. [laughs] 278 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,199 But it's hard. It's not easy. 279 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,719 ♪ Whoa ♪ 280 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,839 ♪ I need a miracle, I need a miracle ♪ 281 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,760 ♪ I need a miracle ♪ 282 00:13:57,839 --> 00:13:59,560 [Karen] A couple is made up of three parts. 283 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,719 Two individuals and then that bit that they make a couple. 284 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,839 So you have to get a balance between those three things 285 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,120 in order to have a healthy, strong, lasting relationship. 286 00:14:10,199 --> 00:14:11,920 What a couple needs is equality, 287 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,680 and Mons and Shay haven't quite worked that out. 288 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,560 This couple really need to talk about where they're going wrong. 289 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,560 [song fades] 290 00:14:26,199 --> 00:14:29,040 -Welcome to our last session. -Yeah. 291 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,760 Yeah, last. 292 00:14:30,839 --> 00:14:31,719 Last session. 293 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:38,240 So in the last couple of sessions, what became really quite important 294 00:14:38,319 --> 00:14:42,160 was the imbalance in social networks and emotional support. 295 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,839 And I think, actually, Mons, you had a sort of a realization in that… 296 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,319 -In that, um, session. -Yeah. 297 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,280 [Shay] Like, I just don't want her to, like, 298 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,959 forget who she was before me kind of thing. 299 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:58,719 The balance. 300 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,920 -The balance. Yeah. -It's the management of the balance. 301 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,040 It is quite lonely. 302 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,640 I just think I end up all in too much. 303 00:15:06,719 --> 00:15:08,000 It's called a merge. 304 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,360 You merge in too much. 305 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,319 And the problem with that is that it can put pressure on your partner. 306 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,680 Yeah, no, that's… That's fair. 307 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,520 Like, I feel like at the beginning of all my relationships, 308 00:15:21,599 --> 00:15:23,439 I've still got my friends, in a sense. 309 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,240 But then I feel like things happen, and then I'm just-- I just step away. 310 00:15:27,719 --> 00:15:30,719 But what effect does it have on you that Mons doesn't have friends? 311 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,319 Does it make you feel more guilty about going out? 312 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,479 Does it-- What effect does it have on you? 313 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,400 [Shay] Yeah, a little bit. Like, a little bit guilty. Like… 314 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,599 I often find myself that I'm asking. 315 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,880 So I feel like that's kind of like 316 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,000 my independence getting taken away kind of thing. 317 00:15:47,079 --> 00:15:48,959 So I feel like I'm treading. 318 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,160 Treading on eggshells. 319 00:15:51,079 --> 00:15:51,920 [Shay] Yeah. 320 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,880 Independence is important. I don't take away from that. 321 00:15:56,959 --> 00:15:59,760 And no one's trying to take away anyone's independence. 322 00:15:59,839 --> 00:16:01,479 I've never been that kind of person. 323 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,199 Mons, what effect did it have on you? 324 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,079 What do you mean? In what sense? 325 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,199 Learning about actually how you do relate into a relationship 326 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,640 in quite the way that you do. 327 00:16:12,719 --> 00:16:15,359 Quite the dependence that you have on that relationship, 328 00:16:15,439 --> 00:16:19,160 rather than cultivating your own independence. 329 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,560 I feel like I do still have my own independence. 330 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,760 But then I feel like things happen, and then I don't wanna tell my friends. 331 00:16:25,839 --> 00:16:27,280 That's when the relationship starts-- 332 00:16:27,359 --> 00:16:30,479 'Cause I don't really wanna tell everyone what's going on in my life, in a sense, 333 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,680 or in my relationship. 334 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,400 Is that because you don't like sharing when you're having problems? 335 00:16:40,199 --> 00:16:41,079 Yeah. 336 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,400 I don't know what else to say. 337 00:16:43,479 --> 00:16:45,120 Shay, anything for you to say? 338 00:16:45,199 --> 00:16:48,520 I don't know, like this independence is having your own-- like your own thing, 339 00:16:48,599 --> 00:16:51,599 like your own emotion, innit? That's just the way it is. 340 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,319 Is what you call independence, going out, talking to 100 different girls, 341 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,120 and then coming back to your relationship? 342 00:16:56,199 --> 00:16:57,599 See, how did we get here? 343 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,520 -[Mons] I'm trying to make it make sense. -Yes, okay. Mons. 344 00:17:00,599 --> 00:17:02,719 -How we getting here? -[Karen] Say more. What's going on? 345 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,359 Oh, nothing. I'm just annoyed. 346 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:05,879 Can I have a minute, please? 347 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:06,800 Yes. 348 00:17:06,879 --> 00:17:09,079 [melancholy music plays] 349 00:17:11,399 --> 00:17:12,919 [Mons sobbing softly] 350 00:17:15,399 --> 00:17:17,280 Do you know what's going on with her, Shay? 351 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,319 She got very emotional 352 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,880 from the last session. 353 00:17:23,399 --> 00:17:26,399 Like, in regards to her social life. 354 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:28,440 [sniffles] 355 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,320 She's going through a lot of emotions. I feel like she's battling with herself. 356 00:17:32,399 --> 00:17:34,080 Do you want to go and find her? 357 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,680 [exhales] Yeah. 358 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,800 But I do hear it 'cause at the first session that I'd done, I got emotional. 359 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,120 Do you know what I mean? So, it's only… It's only natural, like. 360 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,360 It's okay to feel overwhelmed, I guess. 361 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,880 Especially when you're not used to it, talking about your feelings out loud. 362 00:17:51,399 --> 00:17:52,360 So yeah. 363 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,600 [music ends] 364 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,960 -[Shay] You okay? What's wrong? -[Mons] Mm-hmm. 365 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,960 -It's a total-- It's just annoying. -What's annoying? 366 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,960 Everyone walking around telling everyone that I have no fucking friends. 367 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:07,960 It's not-- Baby, it's not-- 368 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,280 [Mons] But it makes it seem like I'm mad controlling. 369 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:11,600 You're still not understanding? 370 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,360 You're making it seem like I'm controlling. 371 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,360 [Shay] Did "controlling" come out of my mouth? 372 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,440 That's how you make it seem, what you're implying. 373 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,600 Shay says statements that I'll carry. 374 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,680 For an example, I feel like I'm losing my independence. 375 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,399 I am not the kind of person to stop you from living your life. 376 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,600 So I just felt like she needs to be a bit more mindful 377 00:18:30,679 --> 00:18:34,360 of the words she chooses to use in these kind of situations. 378 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,919 -How are you feeling? -[Mons] Okay. I'm fine. 379 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:43,800 Yeah. 380 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,880 Would you like to talk about what happened, how I triggered you? 381 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,840 I feel like I don't… I don't ask for much, 382 00:18:51,919 --> 00:18:55,200 and I don't feel like I'm that difficult of a person, 383 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,080 but I feel like it's being made to seem like I'm so difficult, 384 00:18:58,159 --> 00:19:00,720 when I just feel like I'm just a casual, simple person 385 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,640 that just barely asks for anything. 386 00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:05,000 Yeah. 387 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,040 [Karen] What do you think of that, Shay? 388 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,720 Yeah, she barely asks us for anything, 389 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,679 but if I wanna go out with my friends, I'm not allowed to. 390 00:19:16,919 --> 00:19:19,240 -[Karen] Yes, you are. You are allowed. -Yes. 391 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,720 [Karen] That's… 392 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,080 I agree, you are allowed. 393 00:19:23,159 --> 00:19:26,800 Didn't say you wasn't allowed, not once, to be fair. 394 00:19:27,399 --> 00:19:28,240 [exhales] 395 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:30,000 Yeah. 396 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,960 How I feel right now is that it's like, 397 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,200 "Just because you don't have people around you, 398 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,280 or a huge group of people and all these things to do, 399 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:40,360 doesn't mean you need to kind of be on my case." 400 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,480 That's how it's starting to feel, like you're using that 401 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,760 when that's like a whole separate problem. 402 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,880 Nah, bro, it's not a whole separate problem, 403 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,960 'cause it's still entwined with this, I feel like. 404 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,520 'Cause you don't go out as much, that's why you're on to me. 405 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,280 No, that's not at all why. 406 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,919 -You know why. I've said multiple times. -Yeah but-- All right, cool, the cheating. 407 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,159 But how many times are we gonna go about talking about the cheating, the cheating? 408 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,040 How many times are we gonna do this? 409 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,880 When you don't do the same behavior you did when you was cheating. 410 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,080 When you were cheating, you were ignoring me and you needed all this space. 411 00:20:11,159 --> 00:20:13,560 So if you could literally communicate a little bit better 412 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,840 and not feel like I don't exist when you step foot out the house, 413 00:20:16,919 --> 00:20:20,960 then I wouldn't have those feelings or those concerns, 414 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,919 and I would probably be able to park it up. 415 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,320 So it's that checking in in order to rebuild the trust. 416 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,240 That's it. And not too often, but just Mons feels 417 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,640 as if you have her in mind when you're out. 418 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:38,840 [Mons] Yeah. 419 00:20:38,919 --> 00:20:40,600 [Karen] Do you feel comfortable with that? 420 00:20:40,679 --> 00:20:42,800 -Yeah. -Yeah? On both sides? 421 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,159 Yeah. 422 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,280 [Karen] And finally, your couple is only as good as what you put into it. 423 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,120 So that push-pull dynamic that you often, um, experience 424 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,240 of one of you pulling back, the other one pushing forward, 425 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,640 that needs to be equalized in some way. 426 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,440 You're both autonomous, but actually, you think about the couple. 427 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,960 [soft R&B music plays] 428 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,360 -Mm-hmm. Yeah. -That's a work in progress for you two. 429 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,840 I feel like the session helps me understand that we need to help each other 430 00:21:13,919 --> 00:21:15,560 in the areas that we're stronger at. 431 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,760 Because she's stronger with her friends, and I'm stronger in my relationship. 432 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,240 So if we was able to teach each other that, I feel like we'd be great. 433 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,480 That's the end of our time. 434 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,080 -[Shay] Thank you. -[Mons] Take care. 435 00:21:25,159 --> 00:21:26,840 -Thank you. Bye. -[Karen] Thank you both. 436 00:21:26,919 --> 00:21:29,600 My whole view of therapy has changed. 437 00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:33,440 I've learned that it's not always about your independency, um, 438 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,120 as because I am in a relationship. 439 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,960 It's more of a partnership, so you have to find balance. 440 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,919 I'm trying to be a better partner, 441 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,840 and I'm trying to understand where her anxiety comes from. 442 00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:47,640 You can't rush this. It's a journey. 443 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,760 Um, and it's an ongoing journey. 444 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,399 Like, with therapy, I guess it doesn't stop. 445 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,080 Would you do it again? 446 00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:55,000 [Shay] Yeah. 447 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,280 I wanna work on me. I wanna work on, like, us. 448 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,960 [Mons] I love Shay. But right now, I just wanna keep doing therapy 449 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,360 and go from there. 450 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,240 ["Now That We're Through" plays] 451 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,360 ♪ My patience is wearing so thin ♪ 452 00:22:13,439 --> 00:22:16,280 ♪ You're playing games I know I'll never win, but ♪ 453 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,320 ♪ I'm the one that got hurt ♪ 454 00:22:18,399 --> 00:22:21,439 ♪ 'Cause you played with fire To watch while I burn ♪ 455 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,760 [Carmen] Jeylan, you're not gonna believe this. 456 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,399 Like, you know he got a vasectomy. 457 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,960 -I told you about that. -[Jeylan] Yeah. 458 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:33,600 But he didn't tell me that he hasn't actually frozen his sperm. 459 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:35,439 -Yeah. Yeah. -Oh, sugar. 460 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,320 Yeah. Like, it's just not okay. 461 00:22:37,399 --> 00:22:40,000 -Yeah. -It's made me really sad, to be honest. 462 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,320 Like, I didn't realize that we'd missed the mark of each other so much. 463 00:22:44,399 --> 00:22:47,040 Like in my mind, he wanted to have a fourth child. 464 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,200 -[Jeylan] Yeah. -And, like, it's just broken me. It has. 465 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,960 And I don't think he realizes just how much. 466 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,760 I think in your therapy, you just really, you know--- 467 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,320 Really just got to speak to him about, you know, 468 00:22:58,399 --> 00:23:00,240 "I need transparency all the way." 469 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,159 "Even if you know I'm gonna be upset, like, you can't hide anything from me." 470 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,120 Otherwise, that trust, you know… 471 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,640 You know, he has to be completely transparent. 472 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,600 [Carmen] I don't-- I'll be honest with you. 473 00:23:12,679 --> 00:23:15,200 Like, I don't want him anywhere near me right now. 474 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,560 Like, I just need a minute. I just need some space. 475 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:20,800 And… 476 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,880 [tense music plays] 477 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,439 …I need to process. 478 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:29,280 [music intensifies] 479 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:45,200 [Karen] What I really want to get to in this final session with Maria and Viktor 480 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,640 is what is the fear that's holding this couple back? 481 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,919 I want to get underneath Viktor's defense, 482 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,919 open him up a little bit, 483 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,360 expose his vulnerability, 484 00:23:55,439 --> 00:23:57,800 and help this couple move to the next stage. 485 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,720 [music ends] 486 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,520 -[Maria] Hi. -Hello, both. 487 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,159 -Nice to see you again. Looking good. -[Karen] Maria, Viktor. Hi. 488 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,480 -Hi. -Hi. 489 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:08,399 [Karen] Okay. 490 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,040 Welcome to our last session together. 491 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:11,960 [Maria] Mm. 492 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,560 -[Karen] So I gave you some homework. -[Maria] Mm-hmm. 493 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:17,880 Did you do it? 494 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,520 [Maria] I did share with him my poems. 495 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,200 Um, it didn't go that good. But, um, 496 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,040 yeah, his kind of response back to the poem was a bit, 497 00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:33,000 um, not what I expected it to be. 498 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,040 Well, I think you should sit looking at each other and read it again. 499 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,159 Thank you. 500 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,439 [exhales] 501 00:24:44,679 --> 00:24:45,919 [Maria] I'm not here to fight 502 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000 Not here to point fingers 503 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,800 Or fold us into blame 504 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,919 I'm here because I still see us 505 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,919 Somewhere under the silence 506 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:57,679 I'm getting the ick 507 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,560 Marriage was never a prize I wanted to earn 508 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,320 But to finally feel like I've been chosen 509 00:25:04,399 --> 00:25:05,320 And now 510 00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:07,960 I find myself pulling back 511 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,320 Not out of malice, not out of pride 512 00:25:10,399 --> 00:25:12,199 But out of quiet heartbreak 513 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:14,240 [exhales] 514 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,360 I'm saying this Because I still believe in us 515 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:24,439 [Maria sniffles] 516 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,679 And I want to believe in me Inside of us again 517 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:30,840 So let's talk 518 00:25:30,919 --> 00:25:32,679 Because I haven't given up 519 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:33,600 [sniffles] 520 00:25:33,679 --> 00:25:37,800 I'm just trying to find my way back To the love that felt like home 521 00:25:38,399 --> 00:25:39,679 Not just for you 522 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,600 [sniffles] 523 00:25:40,679 --> 00:25:41,840 But for me too 524 00:25:42,919 --> 00:25:43,760 So yeah. 525 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,120 [sniffles] 526 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,800 Okay, thank you. 527 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,439 -Can I give you a hug? -Yeah. 528 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,399 [Viktor] Come on. 529 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,040 Thank you for that. 530 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,800 See, this is what I would've wanted yesterday when I read that to you. 531 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,040 [sniffles] This is what I would've wanted. 532 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,760 But yesterday, you gave me, like… 533 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,320 [sobs, exhales] 534 00:26:08,399 --> 00:26:12,399 Yesterday, you really kind of invalidated my feelings in a way. [sniffles] 535 00:26:13,199 --> 00:26:14,880 Like, that's the type of reception 536 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,800 I would've loved to have received when I read that to you the first time. 537 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,120 Not here. 538 00:26:22,199 --> 00:26:23,399 You okay? Sit down. 539 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:26,880 [Viktor exhales] 540 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,040 What happened yesterday then? What was the response you gave? 541 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:32,960 Like, "I appreciate it." I said, "I appreciate it. Thank you for sharing." 542 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,280 "I appreciate it, and I'm sorry you feel that way. But, however…" 543 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,840 And I switched it all, like, onto her and made it about myself. 544 00:26:39,919 --> 00:26:42,480 It was almost like, "How dare you say those things?" 545 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,439 And it's-- Yeah. 546 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,919 Do you realize that you might do that a lot, make it about yourself? 547 00:26:47,439 --> 00:26:50,399 [Viktor] I was just in a different mental state yesterday. 548 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,560 'Cause I also saw my dad yesterday. We had a lot of conversations. 549 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,000 I was in a different mental state. 550 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,000 I don't know, just the way I reacted was basically not so emotional. 551 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,800 Say more about the conversation with your father. 552 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,439 He feels sorry almost that he didn't teach me how to express my emotions. 553 00:27:05,199 --> 00:27:08,840 But he didn't even know that that is something that he should teach me. 554 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,840 It was the first time we actually ever sat down 555 00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:14,840 and talked about emotions and feelings and things. 556 00:27:14,919 --> 00:27:16,840 Isn't that part of a relationship, 557 00:27:16,919 --> 00:27:19,399 that you do have somebody that you can share 558 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,919 these types of vulnerabilities and sensitivities with? 559 00:27:23,439 --> 00:27:25,159 Does he do that? 560 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,520 He do-- Like, he talks about his feelings, 561 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,600 but he just very much just keeps it surface level. 562 00:27:30,679 --> 00:27:32,600 Even yesterday, when he came back from his dad, 563 00:27:32,679 --> 00:27:34,520 I said, "What did you and your dad talk about?" 564 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,600 I-- He did not tell me any of this. 565 00:27:36,679 --> 00:27:38,640 [Karen] Can you see that, actually, 566 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,600 this is a block to intimacy, vulnerability, 567 00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:44,880 sharing and creating a life together with somebody? 568 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,880 Yeah, I can see how that might be… might be causing some… 569 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,640 some issues here. Yeah. 570 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,800 Yeah. 571 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,000 [Karen] Thank you for that. 572 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,840 And for you, Maria, what's been going on since the last session? 573 00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:01,960 -[Maria] Um… -What have you been thinking about? 574 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,360 Um, I actually went to a bridal store with my best friend 575 00:28:06,439 --> 00:28:08,439 because she's getting married soon. 576 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,399 [sighs] She went in a bit deep, like, in the sense of… 577 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,240 She's told me things I've never really, like, heard her say. 578 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,080 She was very, like, frank with me and just to the point. 579 00:28:18,159 --> 00:28:22,919 She was like, "How would you feel if she was in the same situation as me?" 580 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,480 And I was like, I would tell her to leave because it's clear that this guy is just… 581 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,600 -You'd tell her to leave? -[Maria] I would, yeah. 582 00:28:30,679 --> 00:28:32,959 -But-- -Is that you telling yourself to leave? 583 00:28:36,199 --> 00:28:38,080 I mean, she's already thinking about it. 584 00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:41,000 [Karen] You've been questioned by others, "Is this the right match?" 585 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,560 So my question to you is, are you just too enmeshed? 586 00:28:44,639 --> 00:28:48,360 Are you just too stuck together but for the wrong reasons? 587 00:28:50,959 --> 00:28:52,320 [Viktor] It just feels like 588 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,840 she wants all of these things from me, but she's not even doing-- 589 00:28:55,919 --> 00:28:58,720 -What's "all of these things"? -[Viktor] You want me to be your husband. 590 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,320 -You want me to marry you. -Yeah, I do. 591 00:29:00,399 --> 00:29:03,480 Out of potential, out of, like, faith, like, believe that one day-- 592 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:04,919 That you're gonna show me-- 593 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,199 That you're gonna show me that once we're married, you're that woman? 594 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,959 -Which woman? -You're ready to be a mother, a wife. 595 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,959 Which woman? What does it look like for you? 596 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,240 -[Viktor] What, a wife? -[Karen] Yeah, a wife. 597 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,560 Wakes up the same time that I do, not scrolling on TikTok till 10, 11 a.m. 598 00:29:21,639 --> 00:29:24,639 You need to have some sort of discipline, some sort of, like, structure 599 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,840 on a day-to-day basis if you want to be a wife… 600 00:29:26,919 --> 00:29:29,399 And my structure is waking up in the morning, 601 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,320 scrolling on TikTok to find trends so that we can work. 602 00:29:33,399 --> 00:29:34,959 And then I go straight to emails 603 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,760 'cause I know we've got brands waiting for us to reply back. 604 00:29:38,439 --> 00:29:39,360 Do you do that? 605 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,240 'Cause that's what I'm doing. 606 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,520 I read the contracts, I negotiate with the brands back and forth. 607 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,399 Do you know how long negotiation takes so that we can get paid what we get paid? 608 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,320 I do, 'cause I do it too. It's not just you. 609 00:29:51,399 --> 00:29:52,919 [Maria] Oh! Once in a while, 610 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,480 when I say, "Oh my gosh, babe, we've got 500 emails in our thingy." 611 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,120 [Viktor] We have split responsibilities within the business. 612 00:29:59,199 --> 00:30:00,399 Get off of it. No, we don't. 613 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,159 I can't do everything. You can't do everything. 614 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,000 Nah, I'm not having that. 615 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,120 Every single time we did a video idea that I said to do, it works. 616 00:30:08,199 --> 00:30:11,320 I got us a video that hit one million views, 22 million views. 617 00:30:11,399 --> 00:30:13,840 So, just take… take everything that I do… 618 00:30:13,919 --> 00:30:15,679 Sorry, I'm shouting. Sorry. 619 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,080 -Have you ever-- -But there's frustration there. 620 00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:20,360 -[Viktor] I understand. -That's what it is. I'm so sorry. 621 00:30:20,439 --> 00:30:23,240 But what if I started doing crazy stuff out of frustration? 622 00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:25,840 That'd be very wrong, right? 623 00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:29,280 -You raise your voice as well. -I don't think I've raised my voice once. 624 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,399 It might not impact Maria quite in the same way as it impacts you. 625 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,480 [Maria] Exactly. 626 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,159 -I can handle it. You can't handle heat. -It's a different story. 627 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,760 You can't handle someone shouting at you. That's what it is. 628 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,480 -You can't handle it. -Good thing that I can handle myself. 629 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,040 Yeah, and I can handle anything. 630 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,560 Period. That's why I'm handling this conversation so easy. 631 00:30:45,639 --> 00:30:46,520 [dramatic music plays] 632 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,360 Before you decide on marriage, why are you two even together? 633 00:30:49,439 --> 00:30:51,159 Let's have a think about that. 634 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,240 [music continues] 635 00:31:05,879 --> 00:31:09,199 ♪ Take your time, here we go It's my time this year ♪ 636 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560 ♪ I've been around But I feel like it's my prime this year ♪ 637 00:31:12,639 --> 00:31:14,240 ♪ Off the ground, to the sky ♪ 638 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,959 ♪ Full of confidence that I will make it ♪ 639 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,399 ♪ Nothing was giving ♪ 640 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,720 ♪ So I had to take it ♪ 641 00:31:25,199 --> 00:31:28,520 ♪ Tell mama don't worry about me I'm going pro ♪ 642 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,000 ♪ No if and buts and maybe It's something I know ♪ 643 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,360 ♪ I sacrificed so much, yeah Trying to make it ♪ 644 00:31:35,439 --> 00:31:37,000 ♪ And nothing was giving ♪ 645 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,120 ♪ I had to take it ♪ 646 00:31:38,919 --> 00:31:40,199 ♪ Nothing was giving ♪ 647 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,560 ♪ I had to take it ♪ 648 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:43,720 ♪ Nothing was giving ♪ 649 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:44,919 ♪ I had to take it ♪ 650 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,280 ♪ I sacrificed so much, yeah I gotta to make it ♪ 651 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,120 ♪ And nothing was giving ♪ 652 00:31:50,199 --> 00:31:51,679 ♪ So I had to take it ♪ 653 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:53,840 ♪ Nothing was giving ♪ 654 00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:55,280 ♪ I had to take it ♪ 655 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,199 [indistinct background singing] 656 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,320 ♪ I had to take it ♪ 657 00:31:58,919 --> 00:32:02,120 ♪ I sacrificed so much, yeah I gotta to make it ♪ 658 00:32:02,199 --> 00:32:03,639 ♪ And nothing was giving ♪ 659 00:32:03,719 --> 00:32:05,080 ♪ So I had to take it ♪ 660 00:32:05,159 --> 00:32:06,080 [song ends] to take it ♪