1
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,000
[intriguing music plays]

2
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:13,680
[birds chirping]

3
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,120
[Maria] I read the contracts.

4
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,080
I negotiate with the brands
back and forth.

5
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,759
Do you know how long negotiation takes
so that we can get paid what we get paid?

6
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:21,959
I do, 'cause I do it too.

7
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,200
-It's not just you.
-[Maria] Oh! Once in a while.

8
00:00:24,279 --> 00:00:25,920
Everything that I do…

9
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,160
Sorry, I'm shouting.

10
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,480
There's frustration there.

11
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,639
-I understand.
-That's what it is. I'm so sorry.

12
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,400
But what if I started doing crazy stuff
out of frustration?

13
00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:35,440
Yeah, and I can handle anything, period.

14
00:00:35,519 --> 00:00:37,480
That's why I'm handling
this conversation so easy.

15
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,239
Before you decide on marriage,
why are you two even together?

16
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,080
Let's have a think about that.

17
00:00:51,879 --> 00:00:52,879
So is it business?

18
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:54,640
Is it love?

19
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:55,800
Is it dependency?

20
00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:58,400
What is it?

21
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,120
'Cause I love her.

22
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,160
I don't think anyone would love me
the same way she does

23
00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:06,800
and understand me the same way she does.

24
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:12,640
I know it's love.

25
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,119
This sort of interface between work,

26
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,160
your professional lives,
and your personal lives,

27
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,720
and you just-- It's all mixed up.

28
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,360
[Viktor] And sometimes we get lost

29
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,960
in, yeah, in that.

30
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:26,680
-[Karen] You do, yeah.
-Yeah.

31
00:01:26,759 --> 00:01:30,479
So let's wrap up these sessions.
Let's think about what we've covered here.

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00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,240
We know that you've got
different views on marriage.

33
00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:38,800
What is marriage? How is marriage?
What does it-- What's it look like?

34
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,880
But as we all know, marriage
can be tailored to suit you too.

35
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,600
And that's something
that you can think about.

36
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,240
And we know that actually,

37
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business and home life
and personal relationship

38
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,199
all get mixed up together.

39
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,880
So there's room
for splitting those up a bit,

40
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,119
being a bit clearer,
having conversations about what's what.

41
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,240
We also know
that you actually love each other.

42
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,000
Not just because
you're in business together,

43
00:02:08,079 --> 00:02:10,320
not just because
you're too dependent on each other,

44
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,960
because actually,
there is a love still there.

45
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,480
Take it away, talk to each other,

46
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,360
think about it, and work with it.

47
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,440
[soft music plays]

48
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:23,600
[Maria] Okay.

49
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,720
Man, this whole experience, therapy thing,
has been a lot of ups and downs,

50
00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:31,959
but overall,
I think it, like, got us closer.

51
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,080
I don't think that necessarily
my opinion has changed on marriage,

52
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,000
but I think that Maria
has heard me and what I had to say.

53
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,160
And now it's just all about the hard work.
I know I'm not gonna give up,

54
00:02:42,239 --> 00:02:44,080
and I hope she doesn't give up.

55
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,440
And, yeah, I'm… I'm looking forward
to… to our next chapter.

56
00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:51,040
-Thank you both very much.
-Thank you, Karen.

57
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,160
-[Karen] Thank you.
-[Maria] It was nice meeting you.

58
00:02:53,239 --> 00:02:54,880
-Take care.
-[Viktor] Thank you very much.

59
00:02:54,959 --> 00:02:56,120
-[Karen] Bye-bye.
-Bye.

60
00:02:57,959 --> 00:03:01,160
I've learned that Viktor also has things

61
00:03:01,239 --> 00:03:05,280
of which he wants to, you know,
share and open up to me about.

62
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,880
And I hear that, I receive that, you know?

63
00:03:07,959 --> 00:03:11,679
But the whole marriage-goal thing,
I'm not gonna lie to you.

64
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,640
Like, I'm not changing
my whole entire soul just to get that.

65
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,160
Like, no, that needs to come
from the heart, from the love.

66
00:03:17,239 --> 00:03:22,360
I want to feel fully seen
and fully fulfilled in our relationship.

67
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,200
And we'll see.

68
00:03:24,799 --> 00:03:25,720
You never know.

69
00:03:25,799 --> 00:03:29,640
I might be engaged one day,
or we might be broken up one day.

70
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,280
Who knows?
Just gotta do what's right for me.

71
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,000
That's one thing
I've learned from therapy.

72
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,959
I just gotta do what's right for me.

73
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,200
[music fades]

74
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,640
["On a Wave (Nightlife Trap)" plays]

75
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,600
♪ Take a ride through the city
Tryna roll ♪

76
00:03:47,679 --> 00:03:50,200
♪ Take a ride, take a ride ♪

77
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,640
♪ Yeah, ay
Moved West but I still came back ♪

78
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,200
♪ Five years and you still can't rap ♪

79
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,959
♪ So tired that I called up chief ♪

80
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,600
♪ Said, boy, it ain't that… ♪

81
00:03:59,679 --> 00:04:01,519
-How are you?
-[Debbie] I'm fine. How are you?

82
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:02,920
Tired.

83
00:04:05,079 --> 00:04:07,119
-Lots of food.
-Do you know how late you are?

84
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,560
[Kelvin] I know.
I couldn't do anything. I tried.

85
00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:11,200
I tried my best.

86
00:04:13,239 --> 00:04:14,280
I tried my best.

87
00:04:14,799 --> 00:04:15,839
[song ends]

88
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That's not funny.

89
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,959
You're meant to spend
quality time with me.

90
00:04:22,039 --> 00:04:24,840
Me being here, it's a lot.
It's… It's, you know…

91
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,560
I feel like you're not being,
like, very, like, open in the sessions.

92
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,840
Like, or that you're holding back.

93
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,479
-I mean, there was one thing, you know.
-What?

94
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,320
It was just a brief comment that my mum…

95
00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:39,200
my mum made.

96
00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:40,520
Okay.

97
00:04:40,599 --> 00:04:43,280
Okay, she said, "I don't know
if Debbie is the one for you now,

98
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:44,800
in your life, you know."

99
00:04:47,479 --> 00:04:50,919
But why are you brushing it off
like that's not a big deal?

100
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,640
I thought it was just, like, a comment.

101
00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,919
I feel like that's a very
unacceptable comment

102
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,280
for your mum to make
about our relationship.

103
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,039
This is what I'm saying. I knew
me telling you was gonna cause this.

104
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,400
-Call her.
-[Kelvin] Okay.

105
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:08,240
[line ringing]

106
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:09,880
[Kelvin] This is some bollocks.

107
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,840
-[Kelvin's mom] Go on.
-Wow. You okay?

108
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,760
-[Kelvin's mom] Yeah, what's up?
-Um, I'm with Debbie now.

109
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,039
-[Kelvin's mom] Mm-hmm.
-[Kelvin] Um…

110
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,360
-[Kelvin] She wants to talk to you.
-[Kelvin's mom] Okay.

111
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,080
I'm just gonna put you on loudspeaker,
let you guys chop it up.

112
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,240
-[Debbie] Hello, Mum.
-[Kelvin's mom] Yes, darling.

113
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,680
Kelvin said that you think
I'm not the one for him at the moment.

114
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:37,720
[Kelvin's mom] Mm-hmm.

115
00:05:40,039 --> 00:05:42,280
[Kelvin's mom] Um, you know
why I said that, Debs?

116
00:05:42,359 --> 00:05:46,160
Because, you know, you complain about it,
you think he hasn't got time for you,

117
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,000
but you know why
he hasn't got time for you.

118
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,160
You know that
he's doing this for the future.

119
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,039
Do you not see me
around Kelvin five days a week?

120
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,280
-Do I not always come to the shop to help?
-[Kelvin's mom] I do. I do.

121
00:05:57,359 --> 00:05:59,440
[Debbie] So that's why I find it upsetting

122
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,960
that you're telling him
that I'm not the one for him,

123
00:06:02,039 --> 00:06:04,320
when I've been here for how long, years?

124
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,880
-[Kelvin's mom] No. No, not--
-I stood beside him.

125
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,080
[Kelvin's mom] It's been too long
for you two.

126
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,039
There's too much at stake
for you to walk away.

127
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,560
So be there through thick and thin.

128
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:18,880
[Debbie] You should've come to talk to me,

129
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,479
just to be like, you know what?
Let me speak to you,

130
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,080
you know, give me some advice.

131
00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,560
[Kelvin's mom] If you want
this thing to work,

132
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:28,400
you need to chill!

133
00:06:28,479 --> 00:06:29,640
Period.

134
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:32,799
You get me?

135
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,240
-Okay, Mum. Talk to you later.
-[Kelvin's mom] Okay, darling.

136
00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,440
-[Kelvin's mom] Thank you, bye.
-Yeah, bye.

137
00:06:40,359 --> 00:06:42,240
[soft R&B music plays]

138
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:43,880
You okay?

139
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,160
I just feel like your mum

140
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,120
shouldn't get involved
and say things like that.

141
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,280
♪ Won't you stay by my side? ♪

142
00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:56,039
♪ Through the good, the bad, the ugly ♪

143
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,560
♪ Tell me, are you gonna ride? ♪

144
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,840
[Karen] Carmen and Junior
have used therapy

145
00:07:01,919 --> 00:07:05,000
to discuss some very, very,
very difficult issues they've been having.

146
00:07:05,599 --> 00:07:08,359
Their biggest block to real communication

147
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,080
is Carmen's insistence
on the fourth child,

148
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,080
whilst Junior
has been clear that, for him,

149
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,960
the family is complete.

150
00:07:16,039 --> 00:07:18,840
This couple now have to navigate
the breach of trust

151
00:07:18,919 --> 00:07:21,320
that the vasectomy has created.

152
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,039
After 20 years together,

153
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,640
the question is, can they find a way back?

154
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,159
Thank you for coming back.

155
00:07:32,239 --> 00:07:33,479
[song ends]

156
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,159
So this is our last session.

157
00:07:35,239 --> 00:07:37,120
And I thought we would start

158
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,280
with a bit of a recap
of what we have managed to cover.

159
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,280
For you, Junior, you've talked a lot

160
00:07:44,359 --> 00:07:47,919
about wanting more affection,
wanting to be seen by Carmen.

161
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,159
And, Carmen, you've talked a lot
about not being heard,

162
00:07:52,239 --> 00:07:54,440
big decisions not being shared.

163
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,479
Then we moved on to the vasectomy

164
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,719
that was done without really negotiating

165
00:08:00,799 --> 00:08:04,599
and the revelation that actually
the sperm hadn't been frozen

166
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,599
and how that left you feeling, Carmen.

167
00:08:08,679 --> 00:08:09,960
Devastated.

168
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,320
Okay.

169
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,039
I felt betrayed. Like, you know, I didn't…

170
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,280
It's not like I knew about any of this.

171
00:08:19,359 --> 00:08:21,560
I don't feel like I've betrayed

172
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:23,760
Carmen. I feel like…

173
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,039
It's quite a heavy word to use
to describe this scenario.

174
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,840
I mean, that-- That's how I feel.

175
00:08:29,919 --> 00:08:31,799
That's how I've felt, so…

176
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,280
-[Junior] Okay.
-[Carmen] You know.

177
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,120
Like, I've never had anything like this
in our relationship before,

178
00:08:37,199 --> 00:08:40,400
where I've felt, like,
such a lack of trust.

179
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:41,919
Okay.

180
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,440
I don't know what
we can do moving forward.

181
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:49,240
And at this point, I'm not even 100% sure
if Junior does wanna have more kids, so--

182
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,600
I don't wanna have more kids right now.
I've made that very clear.

183
00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:57,440
And now I'm being spoken to
like I've betrayed you.

184
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:00,800
Okay.

185
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,079
I wanna focus on us, right?

186
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,840
-And now--
-I wanna focus on us too.

187
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,560
So let's just do that, then.

188
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,079
You've made yourself very clear,
and I respect and appreciate how you feel.

189
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,480
I just feel like we've got
other things to work on right now,

190
00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:18,800
and I feel like we need
to work on our relationship

191
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,880
and focus on that, you know?

192
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,800
Something that I was left with, Junior.

193
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,120
You mentioned how devastated
you had been at the break-up,

194
00:09:27,199 --> 00:09:30,000
and you were never going back there.

195
00:09:30,079 --> 00:09:33,600
You were never gonna feel
that bereft again.

196
00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:34,800
And the question is,

197
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,320
is the vasectomy
a way of taking back control?

198
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,120
I would say that, yeah,
I guess it probably is.

199
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,040
Because I don't wanna
ever feel what I felt before.

200
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,000
I don't ever wanna be in that position.

201
00:09:47,079 --> 00:09:48,280
-You know?
-What, vulnerable?

202
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,880
I don't wanna be vulnerable.
I don't wanna be, you know, devastated.

203
00:09:51,959 --> 00:09:54,400
I don't wanna go through
what I went through again.

204
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,560
When me and Carmen broke up,
it was very difficult for me.

205
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,120
I went to a very dark place,

206
00:10:00,199 --> 00:10:03,480
and I didn't feel loved, obviously.

207
00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:05,640
I want our relationship to be about us,

208
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,400
not just about
how and when we can make babies.

209
00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,920
You know, it's important to me
that she shows me

210
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,480
that she loves me. [inhales]

211
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:18,839
[Karen] What about you, Carmen?

212
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,560
What Junior's saying,
does that make sense to you?

213
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:22,920
[Carmen] Yeah, it does.

214
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,000
Because I feel like a lot of this
has been about me having a fourth child.

215
00:10:27,079 --> 00:10:29,240
I also do want you to know

216
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,360
that I am appreciative of you

217
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,800
and that I love you

218
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,480
and that you are an amazing husband,

219
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:39,760
an amazing father, and so important to me.

220
00:10:39,839 --> 00:10:41,800
And I kind of want to show you

221
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,120
that it's not just
about having a fourth child.

222
00:10:45,199 --> 00:10:47,880
Like, that's not
the only thing that I care about.

223
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,760
So as much as that was a priority for me,

224
00:10:52,839 --> 00:10:56,800
I feel like this has
really taught me to listen more

225
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,959
to my partner's feelings too,

226
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,719
as opposed to just my own feelings

227
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,280
and just sort of
powering through of what I want.

228
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,839
So that's been really helpful for me.

229
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,120
I'm very grateful
that Carmen has said that.

230
00:11:10,199 --> 00:11:11,280
It means a lot.

231
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,079
And I think I need to see it, you know?

232
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,000
I just need to see and feel
what she's saying over the next 12 months.

233
00:11:19,079 --> 00:11:22,280
And after feeling appreciated

234
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,360
and feeling like she sees me

235
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,800
and, you know,
she is really about me and her,

236
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,920
my feelings towards additional members
of the family might completely change.

237
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,320
Let's focus on us for a year,
and then can revisit

238
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,400
potentially maybe reversing the vasectomy.

239
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:38,400
Carmen?

240
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,320
Um, I just want everything to be
transparent moving forward.

241
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,199
Resentment builds
when nobody is listening.

242
00:11:47,079 --> 00:11:50,040
So you have to be able to communicate
what you're feeling resentful,

243
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,640
what you're feeling angry about.

244
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,040
[Junior] I think
what we went through before,

245
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,320
I got to know myself
a lot more through that break

246
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,280
and realized, you know, when you go quiet
and you stop communicating,

247
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,760
you're actually just being defensive
and trying to protect yourself.

248
00:12:05,839 --> 00:12:08,199
So I've given Carmen that trust,

249
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:09,920
and I've said to myself,

250
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,680
I don't need to protect myself
around this person.

251
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:13,880
I can be open.

252
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,079
Kind of. [chuckles]

253
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,920
-[laughs]
-[Junior] Apart from one subject.

254
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,560
-Apart from one subject. Okay, kind of.
-Apart from one subject.

255
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,000
-Yeah, exactly.
-I can see where I was wrong.

256
00:12:23,079 --> 00:12:24,240
-Do you really?
-[Junior] Yeah.

257
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:25,320
-Yeah, I do.
-Okay, good.

258
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,079
I feel like we need
to continue with therapy.

259
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,880
We need to, you know, take your advice.

260
00:12:31,959 --> 00:12:36,160
Like, I feel like there's a lot more work
that needs to be done here.

261
00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,760
You've both been going
alongside each other,

262
00:12:38,839 --> 00:12:41,760
and you need to sort of make
intentional moves to bridge that,

263
00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:43,240
to meet each other in the way,

264
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,640
to keep going,
keep that communication open.

265
00:12:45,719 --> 00:12:46,839
Would you agree?

266
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,079
-Yeah.
-[Carmen] Yeah, definitely.

267
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,599
-[Karen] Okay.
-[Carmen chuckles]

268
00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:52,360
Our time has ended.

269
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,320
-Thanks.
-[Carmen] Thank you, Karen.

270
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,120
-Thanks for your help.
-Thanks for your help.

271
00:12:56,199 --> 00:12:57,920
-You're welcome.
-[Junior] We appreciate it.

272
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,079
[soft music plays]

273
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,520
[Carmen] This has definitely
been a journey, um,

274
00:13:03,199 --> 00:13:05,640
but I feel like it was 100% needed,

275
00:13:05,719 --> 00:13:10,480
and I definitely would not
have found out certain things

276
00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:12,360
had we not have done this.

277
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,120
But if anything like this
ever happened again,

278
00:13:17,199 --> 00:13:19,719
I would have to seriously question

279
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,320
if this relationship is for me.

280
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,599
But Junior's my soulmate,

281
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,120
and I think we just need
to communicate a lot better, um,

282
00:13:30,199 --> 00:13:33,680
and be honest with ourselves
and with each other.

283
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,320
The future is hopeful.

284
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,280
[Junior] The reason why I came here
was to save our marriage.

285
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:44,640
And moving forward,

286
00:13:44,719 --> 00:13:49,280
I definitely will not
be behaving in that way again,

287
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,640
in terms of, like, hiding stuff from her.

288
00:13:51,719 --> 00:13:53,640
Carmen means the world to me.

289
00:13:53,719 --> 00:13:55,079
She's my childhood sweetheart,

290
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,079
so I think we'll be able
to get through the hurdles ahead.

291
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:02,880
[music ends]

292
00:14:02,959 --> 00:14:05,280
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

293
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,440
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

294
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:08,920
♪ Love is the answer ♪

295
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:10,760
♪ To every question ♪

296
00:14:11,719 --> 00:14:14,000
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

297
00:14:14,079 --> 00:14:16,079
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

298
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,680
♪ Love is the answer ♪

299
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,040
Like, where's the Coke, Sprite?

300
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,160
Like, what's this?

301
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,760
[Jay] That's… You get that
at the corner shop. Not here.

302
00:14:24,839 --> 00:14:27,319
Sometimes, I can't lie,
I'm a corner-shop babe.

303
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,719
'Cause what is this?

304
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:30,959
Let's talk about the last session.

305
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,079
[Daisy] Let's talk.

306
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,599
You know what?
I feel like when you haven't had kids,

307
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,680
you're planning the future and stuff,
you say, "Oh, I want a big family."

308
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:40,920
Blah de blah de blah.

309
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,479
Like, when you actually
have a kid and you understand

310
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,319
what it is to have a kid,

311
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,199
bro, it's no… it's nothing like
what I thought it'd be.

312
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,120
I'm telling you as well, on the level,

313
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,000
like, I'm not just having one kid.

314
00:14:54,079 --> 00:14:58,240
I'm… I'm not going to have more kids
than I can handle on my own.

315
00:14:58,319 --> 00:14:59,959
I only want to have the amount of kids

316
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,400
that I know that if everything
went to shit, I can handle this.

317
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,079
Yeah, I can't lie, I'm one and done, like.

318
00:15:07,319 --> 00:15:10,360
On a level, for real, for real,
I don't think I can do it again.

319
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,479
If that's what you're saying, then…

320
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,120
[Daisy] No, honestly, because for me…

321
00:15:15,199 --> 00:15:17,520
'Cause I already told you,
that's a deal-breaker for me,

322
00:15:17,599 --> 00:15:18,680
I'll be so honest, like…

323
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,719
[Daisy] But then, what we doing here?

324
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,479
["Forgiveness" by EMAN8 plays]

325
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:23,479
I don't know.

326
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,520
♪ Take your anger out on me ♪

327
00:15:26,599 --> 00:15:29,240
♪ Want you screaming out my name ♪

328
00:15:29,319 --> 00:15:35,319
♪ Say sorry with your body
Forgive and forget it, babe ♪

329
00:15:37,599 --> 00:15:39,599
[Karen] The main issues
between this couple

330
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,479
is Kelvin's blindness

331
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,760
to the need for the relationship
to be given attention.

332
00:15:46,479 --> 00:15:50,280
He grew up in a household where Mum
just worked to keep the family together.

333
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,599
He's unconsciously re-enacting that,
but he doesn't have to do that.

334
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,120
What he needs to know
is that he can have his business

335
00:15:57,199 --> 00:15:58,680
and a relationship.

336
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,160
They can co-exist.

337
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,079
Whether this relationship survives

338
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,280
comes down to one thing,

339
00:16:04,359 --> 00:16:07,400
their willingness to find a compromise.

340
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,160
-[Karen] Hello, Debbie.
-[Debbie] Hello.

341
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,479
-[Karen] Hi. Hello, Kelvin.
-[Kelvin] Hello.

342
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,760
Welcome back to our last session together.

343
00:16:16,839 --> 00:16:17,959
[Kelvin] Mm.

344
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:18,880
I know.

345
00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:19,839
You comfortable?

346
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,000
[exhales] Yes.

347
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,079
I do remember giving you some homework.

348
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:26,839
How did that go?

349
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,319
I was gonna cook for Debbie at mine.

350
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,079
It fell on the day where

351
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,520
Arsenal were playing
the last game of the season, so…

352
00:16:34,599 --> 00:16:36,560
He left me waiting.

353
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,560
-I think you was an hour and a half late?
-Yeah.

354
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,560
-Did you tell Debbie you'd be late?
-[Debbie] No.

355
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,120
You didn't tell me
you were going to the Arsenal match.

356
00:16:44,199 --> 00:16:45,240
Are you not understanding?

357
00:16:45,319 --> 00:16:47,680
That's not how
you communicate with your partner

358
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,160
and keep her waiting
an hour and 30 minutes.

359
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,199
But I still came. Anyways, we can get--

360
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:56,880
-You got there.
-[Kelvin] I got there.

361
00:16:56,959 --> 00:17:00,439
I was-- I came, I cooked,
we spoke a bit, I started cooking.

362
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,240
We had a little bit of an argument.

363
00:17:05,879 --> 00:17:07,399
Okay, take me through this.

364
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,040
What did you tell me
while you was cutting your onions?

365
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,640
So there was a comment my mum made.

366
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:17,319
She was just saying on the phone that,

367
00:17:17,399 --> 00:17:19,440
"I don't think Debbie's
the one for you right now."

368
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,720
"Try and sort of navigate your life."

369
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,880
His mum has gone to him and said,

370
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,399
"I don't think Debbie's the one
because she's putting pressure on you."

371
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,520
"She's saying you're too busy.
You need to run your business."

372
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,440
"That's what's happening." And now--

373
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,720
But it's not just
my mum's influence. It's also reality.

374
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:35,840
No.

375
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:37,560
It's your mum's influence.

376
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,280
And there shouldn't be all this delusion
going on of, "Debbie's not the one."

377
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,360
I do think your mum is a bit jealous.

378
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:49,399
I know she's not.

379
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,080
His mum has to be jealous.

380
00:17:53,159 --> 00:17:57,240
Because why would you say
you think I'm not the one for your son?

381
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,880
I think she believes I'm taking her spot.

382
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,560
But at the end of the day, you're his mum.

383
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,800
You're not going to marry Kelvin.

384
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,240
So I feel like she just needs
to have a bit of boundaries.

385
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,680
Kelvin will never admit that.

386
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,960
[Kelvin] I am her only boy.

387
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,560
When a mum is advising
their child, it's-- I understand why--

388
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,200
Well, you're 27. You're a--
You're a grown man now.

389
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,480
I'll always be her child, you know,
until both of us go in the ground.

390
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,640
She's coming from a good place.

391
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,320
How would you feel about
going forward with Kelvin

392
00:18:31,399 --> 00:18:34,600
if Mum didn't approve of the-- the union?

393
00:18:34,679 --> 00:18:37,919
If you was to be my husband,
or you wanted to marry me as your wife,

394
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,800
I would expect you

395
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,560
to stand up for me with things like that.

396
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,720
I wouldn't wanna marry into a family
where your mum doesn't approve of me.

397
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:47,640
Yeah.

398
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:49,200
[Debbie] Never.

399
00:18:49,919 --> 00:18:51,679
My mum shouldn't have said it.

400
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,800
But with that being said,
I understand where she was coming from.

401
00:18:56,919 --> 00:18:59,840
I think she was coming from
a place of just being a mum,

402
00:18:59,919 --> 00:19:02,159
you know, always looking out for her son.

403
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,640
So I think she just kind of wanted
to protect myself, my dream.

404
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,240
My mum, I know her.

405
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,800
She wants to sort of meddle
and get involved. That's her character.

406
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,159
I've accepted it, you know?

407
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,360
Complete delusion.

408
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,399
Losing me, Kelvin,

409
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:18,720
sleepless nights.

410
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,480
And once I'm gone, never coming back.

411
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:22,520
And you know this.

412
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:26,919
[Karen] Where does this leave you?

413
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,280
What do you want? What don't you want?
What can you do? What can't you do?

414
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,880
-Let's make it clear.
-[Kelvin] I want--

415
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,040
I wanna focus on this business.

416
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,159
So where does that leave the relationship?

417
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,520
If he wants to pursue me
as his girlfriend,

418
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,000
or prove to me that he wants me,
he needs to just put in that effort.

419
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,560
I don't want him to feel comfortable of,

420
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,480
"I know I'm gonna see Debbie on Monday
because she's coming to the shop."

421
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,000
-So I'm gonna take a seater…
-[Karen] Yeah.

422
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,560
…on helping you
with all your business stuff

423
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,120
and just leave that to you.

424
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,240
Okay.

425
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,280
-I think it's quite a healthy solution.
-Oh, good.

426
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,040
[Karen] 'Cause it's separating business
and your relationship.

427
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:11,399
[Debbie] Mm-hmm.

428
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,360
And whether you can
make that space in your head

429
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,560
for the thought
that, actually, there is a relationship.

430
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,080
I need to feed it.

431
00:20:21,159 --> 00:20:23,120
I need to think about it.

432
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,399
I need to be in it sometimes in the week.

433
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:27,840
Yeah.

434
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,159
I love a challenge, so…

435
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,200
'Cause sometimes,
I feel like he's confusing seeing me…

436
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:35,640
-Yes.
-[Debbie] …in the shop…

437
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,159
-Definitely.
-…as, "I've seen her."

438
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,200
-[Karen] Definitely. Definitely.
-Yeah, I agree.

439
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,040
[Karen] So separating that
is a good first move, really,

440
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,240
to test out
whether you both have intention.

441
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:46,960
Does that sound workable?

442
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:48,640
Yeah.

443
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,000
Would you like to sort of agree that here?

444
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,760
Debbie, you talk to Kelvin
and just say what it is that you want

445
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,080
over the next six months or a year.

446
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,440
So I'll give you, like, your space,
do your business stuff.

447
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,720
However, if you want this to work,
show me with action.

448
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:09,640
Cool.

449
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:10,640
[uplifting music plays]

450
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,360
How do you feel about that, Kelvin?

451
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,120
I-- Yeah, I wanna make it work.

452
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:18,640
We'll see.

453
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,000
From couples therapy,
I feel just stronger.

454
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,679
I feel proud of myself

455
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,399
for putting myself, like, out there

456
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,480
and staying true to myself.

457
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:30,679
I love Kelvin,

458
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,480
and if he finds balance,

459
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,480
then I see a future with him.

460
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,560
But if there's no balance, then no.

461
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,159
Don't forget what we've said here today.

462
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,440
I won't forget this experience, trust me.

463
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,399
-Has it been that bad?
-No, it's been all right.

464
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,560
It's been-- It's been good.

465
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,439
I think my main takeaway
is love is complicated,

466
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,320
and sometimes,
people aren't gonna see life

467
00:21:58,399 --> 00:22:00,120
from the same lens that you do.

468
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,640
-Bye for now.
-[Kelvin] Bye.

469
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,640
I hope that after this therapy session,
we're more aligned with each other.

470
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,720
I'm gonna try spending quality time
with Debbie outside work.

471
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:18,800
I do love Debbie.

472
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,080
And we'll see
what the future has for both of us.

473
00:22:26,439 --> 00:22:27,919
[music ends]

474
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,000
[tense music plays]

475
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,240
[Daisy] When it comes to the conversation
on having more kids in the future,

476
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,919
I feel like we're definitely
on different pages.

477
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,880
I feel like
I've had insight on what it's like

478
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,480
to have a child with him.

479
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,240
I definitely don't regret it,

480
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,000
but I wouldn't wanna
times that now by two.

481
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,080
[Jay] We had a date,
and, yeah, it just took a left turn.

482
00:22:57,159 --> 00:23:00,000
We were discussing potentially
having more kids in the future,

483
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,200
which we've both agreed
that we were gonna do.

484
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,000
I really need a lot of answers, man.

485
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,520
I don't even know
if this girl still loves me.

486
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,120
I hope we can sort things out,

487
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,640
but at the end of the day,
I just want clarity.

488
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,080
[music ends]

489
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,000
-[Karen] Hi, Jay.
-[Jay] Hi, Karen.

490
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,080
Welcome back. Hello, Daisy.

491
00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:25,120
[Daisy] Hi.

492
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,240
[Karen] How are you two?

493
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,280
Good.

494
00:23:28,919 --> 00:23:30,919
Why do I not actually feel that?

495
00:23:31,439 --> 00:23:35,240
Oh, I'm good as an individual. [chuckles]

496
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,880
-[Karen] Okay.
-[Jay] Yeah.

497
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:38,800
Jay?

498
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:41,960
Not great.

499
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,080
Do you wanna tell me why?

500
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,800
We went on a date.

501
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,120
It was supposed to be
for us to have a good time,

502
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,480
and we were just sort of
going over the conversation

503
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,399
about having more kids.

504
00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:57,760
The more we discussed that,

505
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,960
it just sort of
took a left turn, I would say.

506
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:03,439
For you, Daisy?

507
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,679
I… I feel like I would need to see
some genuine change

508
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,720
for me to feel safe
having more kids with him.

509
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,200
[Karen] We'll come back to that.

510
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,040
So I gave you some questions,
and you went away and thought about them.

511
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,000
-[Daisy] Yeah.
-So can we go through them?

512
00:24:24,159 --> 00:24:27,800
"What is working in this relationship
that I still deeply value?"

513
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,960
And, Daisy, to you first, please.

514
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,280
"I really value the friendship element
of a relationship,

515
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:37,200
and I feel that's one thing
we always have."

516
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,159
"Every day with Joseph

517
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,040
does feel like spending time
with a really good friend."

518
00:24:44,399 --> 00:24:45,840
And, Jay?

519
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,320
I said I value the sense
of togetherness that we have

520
00:24:50,399 --> 00:24:53,000
when we go through issues.

521
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,439
I said I also value
the deep love and connection

522
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,960
that we have for each other.

523
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,000
And I value the sense of care and honesty
that she has sometimes as well.

524
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,560
Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes.

525
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,720
-[Jay] Yeah.
-You've both said the same thing.

526
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:08,640
[Daisy chuckles]

527
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,600
She's talking like she's talking about
some best friend or something.

528
00:25:11,679 --> 00:25:12,520
How have--

529
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,919
How is that what you've interpreted
from what I've said?

530
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,320
Bro, I'm not your friend, bro, like…

531
00:25:18,399 --> 00:25:21,480
I said I value the friendship element
of a relationship.

532
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,120
[Jay] And that's all that you value.

533
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:25,399
[sighs]

534
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,560
You don't see that as a fundamental
element of a relationship, Jay?

535
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,560
[Jay] It is fundamental, but, like,

536
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,439
I wanted to hear that
she valued the love that we have

537
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,760
and the connection that we share.

538
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,240
-[Karen] Okay.
-But that's obvious.

539
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,080
-[Karen] Okay. We'll come back.
-[Jay] It's not obvious.

540
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:43,120
"What is hurting me or wearing me down

541
00:25:43,199 --> 00:25:47,360
in ways I'm struggling
to accept or forgive?"

542
00:25:47,439 --> 00:25:48,560
Daisy?

543
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,520
"Joseph's lack of sentiment
is wearing me down."

544
00:25:54,159 --> 00:25:55,640
"When I newly gave birth,

545
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,800
he often says
he was around when I needed him."

546
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,120
"But in the moments where
he could show his support and empathy

547
00:26:04,199 --> 00:26:08,120
for everything I'd gone through,
when it wasn't absolutely necessary,

548
00:26:08,199 --> 00:26:09,080
he didn't."

549
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,919
I'm hearing there that you don't feel

550
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,520
as if Jay really understands you
and is there for you in that moment.

551
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,560
I did feel alone a lot of the times.

552
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:21,480
[Karen] Yeah.

553
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,199
Okay. "If nothing changes,

554
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,120
can I live
with this relationship long-term?"

555
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:29,880
Joseph?

556
00:26:30,439 --> 00:26:32,640
"If nothing changes, no, I do not believe

557
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,840
I can continue
this relationship long-term."

558
00:26:35,919 --> 00:26:37,840
'Cause I do wanna have a bigger family,

559
00:26:37,919 --> 00:26:41,760
and I've got the impression
that she would want to as well.

560
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,840
But then sometimes,
I get the impression that she doesn't.

561
00:26:44,919 --> 00:26:46,960
So I'm kind of confused on that.

562
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,720
Because ultimately,
I'm the one giving birth,

563
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,679
and ultimately,
I will be the primary carer.

564
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,360
-Can you do it yourself?
-[Karen] Hold on.

565
00:26:53,439 --> 00:26:55,360
-[Daisy] Yes.
-Can you impregnate yourself?

566
00:26:55,439 --> 00:26:57,560
Ultimately, it would be my decision.

567
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,600
Can we just think about,
if you two weren't together…

568
00:27:00,679 --> 00:27:01,520
[inhales]

569
00:27:02,199 --> 00:27:04,080
…what would that mean for both of you?

570
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,919
I mean, are you together just for Alora?

571
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:08,880
-No.
-[Karen] No?

572
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,960
If we weren't together,
I would never leave her stranded.

573
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,760
-That's what I wanna talk about.
-[Jay] I would never not support her.

574
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,640
'Cause when we did start this journey,

575
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,080
when she was pregnant,
I was there the whole time.

576
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,240
[Karen] We're gonna shake it up a bit.

577
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,760
Can we do an exercise

578
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,280
where you two have a think about
what it might be like to co-parent?

579
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,000
What were your thoughts?

580
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,360
I feel like, deep down,

581
00:27:37,439 --> 00:27:39,760
he would prefer to co-parent.

582
00:27:41,199 --> 00:27:42,040
[soft music plays]

583
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:43,120
What about you?

584
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:47,919
[breathes deeply]

585
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,640
I feel like this has unravelled

586
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,480
a lot of things that

587
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,600
I couldn't ignore.

588
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,560
To be honest,
I'd rather leave here just being alone,

589
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,439
um, because, for me, it just sounds like

590
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,760
he's miserable, for the most part.

591
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,919
I don't truly want to be co-parents.

592
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,280
I don't think anybody does.

593
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:20,960
I think everybody who has a partner
or has a kid with a partner

594
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,240
hopes for the happy ending one day.

595
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,960
I just feel like, ultimately,
that's probably what's best.

596
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,800
I wouldn't want to contribute
to somebody's misery.

597
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:34,480
I would just say,

598
00:28:35,159 --> 00:28:37,640
find somebody who's on your wavelength.

599
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,360
-Have you heard me say I'm miserable?
-[Karen] No, I haven't.

600
00:28:40,439 --> 00:28:43,480
And this might sound harsh,
but are you using him as an excuse

601
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,800
because, actually, you do wanna separate?

602
00:28:45,879 --> 00:28:47,560
I was gonna say the same thing.

603
00:28:47,639 --> 00:28:49,159
-Is that what you're doing?
-Not at all.

604
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,639
If that's what you wanna do,
just… just stand on it.

605
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,360
I'm not-- I'm not using him as an excuse.

606
00:28:54,439 --> 00:28:58,040
And this is the thing.
He hasn't explicitly said those things,

607
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,679
but from all the things
that he's complained about,

608
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,600
I couldn't imagine
that somebody like that is happy.

609
00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:05,320
-So…
-There's no happy or miserable.

610
00:29:05,399 --> 00:29:08,679
-Isn't it things to work through?
-Yeah, it's just things to work on.

611
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,360
I'm not happy about certain things,

612
00:29:10,439 --> 00:29:13,560
but there's also so many
different things I'm happy about,

613
00:29:13,639 --> 00:29:15,399
which I show you all the time.

614
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,159
-You don't acknowledge them.
-[Jay] I do acknowledge you.

615
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,399
Why am I gonna acknowledge…

616
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,480
Why am I gonna be
discussing things I'm happy about?

617
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,000
There's nothing to discuss there.

618
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,919
["Destroy Me" by Nine One One plays]

619
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,439
You said that you feel like
I'm constantly bringing you down.

620
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,280
-But I feel like you don't--
-I said as a father.

621
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,360
Okay, as a dad, as a person
in general, whatever it may be,

622
00:29:35,439 --> 00:29:36,959
but I feel like you don't realize

623
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,080
that is what you've done
throughout this experience.

624
00:29:39,159 --> 00:29:42,679
I feel like although I may
criticize him about one thing,

625
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,159
I always make sure
to then praise him about something else,

626
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,959
whereas vice versa,
I just feel like it's constant criticism.

627
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,639
-And for me--
-Praise me about--

628
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,600
I haven't heard any praise.

629
00:29:53,679 --> 00:29:56,959
Okay, that's fine.
I don't care about this anymore.

630
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,919
-You see?
-[Daisy] Like, I'm actually tired.

631
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,840
This is boring me at this point.

632
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,399
Why is she so irritated?

633
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,159
She's hurt.

634
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,840
Do you want to see
if she wants to come back in?

635
00:30:11,919 --> 00:30:13,800
No, man, honestly, I don't care. No.

636
00:30:13,879 --> 00:30:16,159
I don't care. Genuinely.

637
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,080
I don't care.

638
00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:21,199
Joseph was basically
talking out of his arse,

639
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,639
and I just don't like
the image that he's portraying.

640
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,959
And for me, it was a waste of time
sitting there, listening to that

641
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,720
'cause it's just simply not true.

642
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,320
I'm done.

643
00:30:32,959 --> 00:30:34,760
[exhales deeply]

644
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,040
[sighs]

645
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,280
[sobbing]

646
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,760
[breathes deeply]

647
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,840
This is what I have to deal with every--
It's just draining.

648
00:30:44,639 --> 00:30:46,199
Like, who wants to deal with that?

649
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,480
Why don't you
go and see how she's feeling?

650
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,879
♪ Rage in my arms tonight ♪

651
00:30:56,639 --> 00:30:59,959
♪ Don't love me, destroy me ♪

652
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,560
♪ Burn like a wildfire ♪

653
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,600
♪ Flow like the river wild, oh ♪

654
00:31:06,679 --> 00:31:09,439
♪ Rage in my arms tonight ♪

655
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,439
♪ Don't love me, destroy me ♪

656
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,240
[Jay] You actually left.

657
00:31:18,879 --> 00:31:20,360
-You left me.
-[Daisy] Yes, I have.

658
00:31:20,439 --> 00:31:22,439
I've walked out before,
but I've never left you.

659
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,360
-I've never left here without you.
-That's fine.

660
00:31:24,439 --> 00:31:25,959
The thing about me, I am gonna walk out

661
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,919
'cause I'm not gonna sit there
and listen to that.

662
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,000
That's bullshit.
You always say I don't support you.

663
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,080
That's a lie. I'm not doing it anymore.

664
00:31:32,159 --> 00:31:34,199
-Okay, cool.
-[Daisy] Talk to yourself!

665
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,320
[line disconnects]

666
00:31:35,399 --> 00:31:36,520
[Jay] Whatever, man.

667
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,600
["Destroy Me" continues]

668
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:45,040
She does know I love her,
and she knows I love Alora as well deeply,

669
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,120
so I don't know.

670
00:31:47,199 --> 00:31:49,800
I feel like sometimes
that's used against me.

671
00:31:49,879 --> 00:31:51,919
I don't wanna be made
to look like the villain.

672
00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:56,320
So I don't know where this leaves us.

673
00:31:56,399 --> 00:31:59,639
It seems like it's over, so, yeah.

674
00:31:59,719 --> 00:32:02,320
I guess that's what it is. Over.

675
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,560
[song ends]

676
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:17,520
♪ Don't give up on this ♪

677
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:19,360
♪ Promise me… ♪

678
00:32:19,439 --> 00:32:20,959
[producer] Viktor and Maria.

679
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,040
♪ You won't let go so quick ♪

680
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,719
Good news is that Viktor
and my parents have worked it out.

681
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:28,840
They all sat down,

682
00:32:28,919 --> 00:32:30,919
they spoke about everything
they need to speak about,

683
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,399
and now it's all hashed, it's all good.

684
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,040
They're all aligned
with each other now, so it's perfect.

685
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,639
We want the love for each other
to be the base layer for everything.

686
00:32:40,719 --> 00:32:41,560
Foundation.

687
00:32:41,639 --> 00:32:44,080
[Viktor] The foundation
for everything we do from now on.

688
00:32:44,159 --> 00:32:46,199
-Mm-hmm.
-Everything else comes next.

689
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,000
Yeah. Oh, that was good, wasn't it?

690
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,919
-That was very good.
-That was cute.

691
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:51,639
-No.
-'Cause you have stuff.

692
00:32:51,719 --> 00:32:53,480
-You don't want my lip gloss?
-Not right now.

693
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,600
We're definitely gonna
continue some therapy.

694
00:32:59,679 --> 00:33:02,000
Um, we need a Karen in our life.

695
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,560
[both laugh]

696
00:33:03,639 --> 00:33:07,760
Sometimes you need that middle person
just to kind of help you maneuver

697
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,560
through certain conversations
with each other.

698
00:33:10,639 --> 00:33:12,439
It's been a positive experience.

699
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:13,959
Yeah.

700
00:33:16,679 --> 00:33:18,240
[Debbie] Life has been…

701
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:21,879
amazing.

702
00:33:21,959 --> 00:33:23,879
I've been traveling.

703
00:33:23,959 --> 00:33:25,719
I got a promotion at my job.

704
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,480
Everything just seems to be
falling into place,

705
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,919
and I've just been the happiest
I've ever been in a very long time.

706
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,719
With that being said…

707
00:33:38,719 --> 00:33:39,639
[Kelvin grunts]

708
00:33:39,719 --> 00:33:42,000
…me and Kelvin are still together.

709
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,959
[Kelvin] Definitely grown
as a couple and individuals.

710
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,360
Debbie's a lot busier now,

711
00:33:47,439 --> 00:33:51,719
so she definitely understands
the struggles that I was facing.

712
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,439
And now I'm on the receiving end.

713
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,159
So, yeah, it's a double-edged sword,
but we've definitely grown.

714
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,320
[laughing]

715
00:34:02,719 --> 00:34:05,760
I can say that after therapy,
it opened a lot of wounds,

716
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,920
And it was very difficult.
We nearly didn't make it.

717
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400
We decided to continue therapy,

718
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,080
and it has been a journey.

719
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:18,400
I'm still, like, obviously letting her
know that I'm going out with the friends.

720
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,080
It's just sort of trying
to find balance, I guess.

721
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:22,799
We're working through it.

722
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,639
[Jay] So me and Daisy's relationship
right now…

723
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:33,960
yeah, we're not together.

724
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,280
[Daisy] We were just on two
completely different pages.

725
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,480
I felt like we were speaking
two different languages.

726
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,000
But our daughter's our main priority,

727
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,520
so irregardless
of what's going on between us,

728
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,760
we definitely make sure
to show up for her.

729
00:34:46,839 --> 00:34:49,239
I think the resentment from

730
00:34:49,319 --> 00:34:52,000
a lot of the past issues
that we've been through,

731
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,839
and things that
we just can't necessarily get past,

732
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,199
has just sort of caught up to us.

733
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,080
We've broken up lots of times,
but what makes it feel different this time

734
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,560
is we don't live together anymore.

735
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,839
Yeah, it just makes it
more final, you know?

736
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,280
I could see myself getting back with him,

737
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:14,560
but I feel like I definitely
need to deal with my pride, um,

738
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,880
and learn to forgive.

739
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:19,560
[sighs]

740
00:35:21,799 --> 00:35:26,240
There's a reason that we were together
in the first place, so, yeah, I--

741
00:35:26,319 --> 00:35:27,400
That's my answer.

742
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,839
-We made it to the sofa. [laughs]
-We've made it to the sofa. [laughs]

743
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,160
[Dami] Things are going
really well between us.

744
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:40,839
I think therapy has helped us
understand each other a bit more.

745
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,600
-Mm-hmm.
-I would say that you appreciate me more.

746
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:44,799
-Don't you?
-Definitely.

747
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,799
In regards to intimacy,

748
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,000
there's definitely
a few more, like, visits per week.

749
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,560
-You know? Got more--
-More effort.

750
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,640
Yeah, more effort.
It's been-- It's good, it's nice.

751
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,560
I don't know, I just fancy my mans
all over again, you know, you know?

752
00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,880
[laughing]

753
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,160
[Mike] I would say we're in a great place

754
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,720
in terms of intimacy,
finances, just in general.

755
00:36:08,799 --> 00:36:10,040
I think we're really good.

756
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,560
I am now a postman.

757
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,799
Not necessarily
what I wanna be doing right now,

758
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,960
but being able
to contribute financially again

759
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:18,760
makes me feel like the man.

760
00:36:18,839 --> 00:36:21,799
It's good to see you out doing something.

761
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,120
It's changed your spirit,

762
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,640
it's made you
more like how you were before.

763
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:28,600
-Less grumpy.
-And I'm proud of you.

764
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,480
Because you're doing what you need to do.

765
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,200
That's what we do, man.

766
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,680
[chuckles] Why are you smiling
at me like that?

767
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,880
[Yasmin laughs]

768
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,080
And…

769
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,360
we're having a baby!

770
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,000
-[laughing]
-[crew cheering]

771
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,799
[joyful music playing]

772
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:51,799
[laughs]

773
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,520
[music ends]

774
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,040
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

775
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,120
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

776
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,200
♪ Love is the answer ♪

777
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:05,560
♪ To every question ♪

778
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,720
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

779
00:37:08,799 --> 00:37:10,839
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

780
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,440
♪ Love is the answer ♪

781
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,319
♪ To every question ♪

782
00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:20,480
♪ Amazing Grace ♪

783
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:25,560
♪ How sweet the sound ♪

784
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,040
♪ That saved a wretch like me ♪

785
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,799
♪ Saved a wretch like me ♪

786
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:34,920
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

787
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,000
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

788
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,520
♪ Love is the answer ♪

789
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,520
♪ To every question ♪

790
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,600
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

791
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,680
♪ We are all one, we are all one ♪

792
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,200
♪ Love is the answer ♪

793
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,200
♪ To every question ♪

794
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,560
[song ends]
question ♪