WEBVTT 00:06.631 --> 00:08.633 [ambient street noise] 00:18.393 --> 00:20.395 [menacing music playing] 00:21.062 --> 00:22.105 Hello. 00:22.731 --> 00:24.441 My name is Kenneth Kimes. 00:25.734 --> 00:27.318 You don't really know me. 00:27.402 --> 00:29.821 You may think you know me, but you do not. 00:30.321 --> 00:33.158 You may think you know my mother, but you don't. 00:33.241 --> 00:35.702 My son and I are innocent. 00:36.202 --> 00:39.622 There is a huge, evil cover-up going on. 00:39.706 --> 00:42.333 The police have made a terrible mistake. 00:42.417 --> 00:44.419 [distressing music playing] 00:47.672 --> 00:49.340 [man] With Sante and Kenny Kimes, 00:49.424 --> 00:53.678 there's something more than a mother-and-son relationship here. 00:54.971 --> 00:59.517 People who seem to come and go from the Kimeses' lives disappeared. 00:59.601 --> 01:02.312 I got a call. My friend Irene is missing. 01:02.395 --> 01:07.358 We had an 82-year-old socialite who disappeared from her town house. 01:07.442 --> 01:09.360 Every day, without exception, 01:09.444 --> 01:12.572 I'd get a call from the police commissioner's office 01:12.655 --> 01:14.074 with a simple question. 01:14.157 --> 01:15.784 "Where's Irene?" 01:18.328 --> 01:21.122 [woman] We don't know where she is, but we pray for her. 01:21.206 --> 01:24.375 I pray with my son at eleven o'clock every night. 01:24.459 --> 01:28.505 We pray she's all right, but we don't know where she is. 01:28.588 --> 01:32.467 We're innocent, and if just given our rights, we will prove it. 01:37.680 --> 01:39.265 [suspenseful music playing] 01:39.349 --> 01:42.685 [Mooney] Our job is to make sure you can go home and sleep at night. 01:44.187 --> 01:47.398 [Rivera] It's so important for a family to know who murdered their relative. 01:48.316 --> 01:52.487 [chief] Compassion for the victims, that's the most important thing. 01:53.029 --> 01:55.240 [Parrino] I've always liked the peek behind the curtain. 01:56.199 --> 01:57.450 What really happened? 01:59.285 --> 02:02.789 [McNeely] You want to find out the truth. That's what detectives do. 02:03.414 --> 02:06.334 [officer] Your instinct is to help people. 02:07.043 --> 02:10.630 [Titus] In New York City, the NYPD… 02:12.924 --> 02:13.758 this is it. 02:14.801 --> 02:16.803 [suspenseful music trails off] 02:26.396 --> 02:29.274 [detective] In 1997, I had 10 years as a New York City cop 02:29.357 --> 02:32.318 when I got promoted to third-grade detective. 02:32.402 --> 02:35.989 And I got transferred from the 34th Precinct in Washington Heights 02:36.072 --> 02:38.741 to the 19th Precinct, which is the Upper East Side of Manhattan. 02:38.825 --> 02:41.077 [bold, ritzy music playing] 02:44.289 --> 02:47.709 It's probably the richest part of New York City. 02:47.792 --> 02:49.127 We would get homicides, 02:49.210 --> 02:51.462 but certainly not compared to other precincts. 02:51.546 --> 02:55.508 Within a year of being in that precinct, there was a burglary on Fifth Avenue. 02:55.592 --> 02:58.970 So we go up there, and it's Mary Tyler Moore's apartment. 02:59.053 --> 03:01.890 That's the kind of case that we were working on. 03:02.640 --> 03:05.685 The precinct covers from 59th to 95th Street, 03:05.768 --> 03:08.021 from Fifth Avenue all the way to the East River. 03:08.104 --> 03:09.189 Like a big square. 03:09.272 --> 03:13.443 And there's all kinds of high-rises, so it's very densely populated. 03:13.943 --> 03:15.904 When I got transferred, I had culture shock. 03:15.987 --> 03:19.157 I went from the basement to the penthouse in one move. 03:19.240 --> 03:20.241 [music halts] 03:26.331 --> 03:29.834 In 1998, Fourth of July weekend, 03:29.918 --> 03:32.503 the city was a ghost town, especially the Upper East Side. 03:32.587 --> 03:35.215 Everyone goes to their Hamptons house out in Long Island. 03:36.257 --> 03:39.636 On July 5th, it was myself and two other detectives working. 03:39.719 --> 03:40.887 Everyone else took off. 03:40.970 --> 03:42.764 [phone ringing] 03:43.348 --> 03:45.642 A call comes in about a missing person 03:45.725 --> 03:49.562 by a staff member of an 82-year-old woman named Irene Silverman. 03:50.855 --> 03:51.940 I'm the junior detective, 03:52.023 --> 03:55.360 so the two other guys were like, "Kid, this is yours. Here you go." 03:55.443 --> 03:56.527 I was like, "Ah, shit." 03:57.528 --> 04:00.365 No one really wants a missing persons case. 04:00.448 --> 04:05.411 They're usually someone ran away or went somewhere for the weekend. 04:05.495 --> 04:06.996 They didn't tell anybody. 04:07.080 --> 04:09.707 They usually come back, and the case winds up being closed. 04:10.375 --> 04:12.669 But we had to check on it. 04:13.753 --> 04:16.839 So we went over to the town house. 04:17.340 --> 04:22.887 It was on a great block on 65th Street, right off of Madison Avenue. 04:26.474 --> 04:28.601 [detective] I was a second-grade detective 04:28.685 --> 04:31.854 who grew up in the housing projects in East Harlem. 04:31.938 --> 04:33.773 And the first thing I thought was, 04:33.856 --> 04:38.277 "This is probably the first time I walked into a multimillion-dollar building." 04:38.361 --> 04:44.534 It was a beautiful, five-story limestone with a penthouse deck on the roof. 04:44.617 --> 04:48.162 I had not been in many, many buildings that took my breath away 04:48.246 --> 04:53.710 as to, "Wow! This is really expensive. This is really a woman who's well-off." 04:53.793 --> 04:56.087 [Hovagim] When we first get to the town house, 04:56.170 --> 04:59.465 no one's there except Irene Silverman's housekeeper 04:59.549 --> 05:01.592 and Jeff, her personal assistant. 05:02.301 --> 05:04.512 The staff started to tell us, 05:04.595 --> 05:07.098 "Last night, she threw a Fourth of July party." 05:07.181 --> 05:09.684 "She had a lot of guests. They had a great time." 05:09.767 --> 05:12.687 The next morning at about 11:45 a.m. 05:12.770 --> 05:15.189 was the last time any of her staff saw her. 05:15.273 --> 05:17.150 Irene was gonna go take a nap. 05:17.233 --> 05:21.529 Later on at about 4:30, five o'clock in the afternoon, 05:21.612 --> 05:25.575 Marta goes and knocks on Irene's door to her bedroom, 05:25.658 --> 05:27.201 and Irene doesn't answer. 05:27.285 --> 05:30.538 She goes into the room and realizes that Irene is not there. 05:33.166 --> 05:37.628 [man] I'll never forget. It's one of the saddest days of my life. 05:37.712 --> 05:40.048 The phone rang, and it was Jeff. 05:40.131 --> 05:44.469 And from the tone of voice, I can sense that something very serious 05:44.552 --> 05:47.430 and something wrong is going on. 05:47.513 --> 05:51.434 So all Jeff says, "Is Irene with you?" I said, "No." 05:52.018 --> 05:54.604 So, um, Jeff… The next thing Jeff said, 05:54.687 --> 05:57.023 "We were all hoping that Irene is with you," 05:57.106 --> 05:59.192 because usually we spend Sunday together. 05:59.275 --> 06:01.652 He said, "She has been missing since twelve o'clock." 06:01.736 --> 06:04.197 I said, "What happened?" He said, "We don't know." 06:04.280 --> 06:06.741 So I said, "I'll come over soon." 06:08.242 --> 06:10.912 When I get to the house, the whole staff was there. 06:10.995 --> 06:14.290 Suddenly, everybody was at a loss 06:14.373 --> 06:17.502 that the lady of the home is gone. 06:17.585 --> 06:19.670 [tense, mysterious music playing] 06:19.754 --> 06:23.299 The staff said Irene would never leave the residence by herself. 06:23.383 --> 06:26.427 She always had someone escort her, to the store or wherever. 06:26.511 --> 06:27.845 Someone always went with her. 06:28.638 --> 06:33.017 But they also said that this woman is sharp as a tack. 06:33.101 --> 06:36.270 There is no Alzheimer's, no dementia, nothing like that. 06:37.313 --> 06:39.273 We searched the whole town house. 06:40.274 --> 06:43.069 We started tracking down guests that were at the party, 06:43.152 --> 06:46.030 getting their names so we can interview them also. 06:47.824 --> 06:50.326 The staff told us that her keys were missing. 06:50.409 --> 06:52.912 Not only that, they said that she always kept money on hand, 06:52.995 --> 06:55.414 and they said that there was $10,000 missing. 06:55.498 --> 06:58.835 And they showed us where she kept the money, 06:58.918 --> 07:00.378 and that envelope was gone. 07:01.379 --> 07:06.676 The people who she employed told us that she treated them just like family. 07:08.428 --> 07:11.764 I remember being impressed with how much they cared for Irene. 07:13.141 --> 07:16.561 [Toi] That says a lot about the character of Irene Silverman, 07:16.644 --> 07:21.315 to have your workers that loved you, devoted to you, and want the best for you. 07:24.527 --> 07:26.904 [Hovagim] They tell us that she doesn't have any family. 07:26.988 --> 07:30.950 She was a socialite. So if she liked you, she automatically took you in as a friend, 07:31.033 --> 07:33.661 would invite you to the parties, to the town house. 07:33.744 --> 07:35.413 That was it. You were part of her family. 07:36.247 --> 07:39.459 The more I got to know who she was, the more I really liked her, 07:39.542 --> 07:41.919 and the more I'd like to hang out with her. 07:43.129 --> 07:46.549 When she threw a party, she is the center of attention. 07:46.632 --> 07:49.635 Just like in the movie, the Auntie Mame movie. 07:50.386 --> 07:54.724 Alan, darling, I'm so glad to see-- Edna, I called you yesterday. Where-- 07:54.807 --> 07:56.976 -Hello, Mame. -Hello. I'll be with you in just a minute. 07:57.977 --> 08:00.438 [Toi] She held court like no one else. 08:00.521 --> 08:03.774 I first met Irene Silverman in 1994. 08:03.858 --> 08:07.320 I was at the peak of my career. 08:07.403 --> 08:12.658 I was the very first Asian designer that was championed by Anna Wintour. 08:12.742 --> 08:15.661 I went to this very fancy Christmas Eve party. 08:16.829 --> 08:19.540 My friend ran into the kitchen. 08:19.624 --> 08:23.127 She said, "The grande dame just arrived. The grande dame just arrived." 08:23.211 --> 08:25.630 "You must meet her. Everybody wants to meet her." 08:27.006 --> 08:28.508 I was introduced to her. 08:28.591 --> 08:31.219 Even though she's tiny, she's barely five foot tall, 08:31.302 --> 08:33.012 but she's larger than life. 08:33.095 --> 08:36.015 She's so glamorous looking, the way she dresses, 08:36.098 --> 08:37.975 the way she holds herself. 08:39.268 --> 08:41.979 She said, "You must come and have tea with me." 08:42.855 --> 08:45.149 I was there until after midnight. 08:45.233 --> 08:47.401 We had the best time ever. 08:47.485 --> 08:49.820 And she had the best stories to tell. 08:50.821 --> 08:55.243 At the age of 17, she was one of the ballerinas at Radio City. 08:57.912 --> 09:01.832 During one of the performances, Samuel Silverman was in the audience, 09:01.916 --> 09:04.585 was so smitten with Irene. 09:05.878 --> 09:08.422 After a courtship, they got married. 09:08.506 --> 09:10.091 Irene told me he's in finance. 09:10.174 --> 09:14.512 And then Irene started to live this very, very glamorous life. 09:16.973 --> 09:19.058 After her husband passed away, 09:19.141 --> 09:22.937 she started to get a little lonely in this huge mansion. 09:23.020 --> 09:25.064 So to entertain herself, 09:25.147 --> 09:28.651 she rented all the beautiful rooms to very wealthy people, 09:28.734 --> 09:31.279 for people who do not want to stay at a hotel. 09:37.326 --> 09:41.998 The people who she employed told us that directly to the back, 09:42.081 --> 09:44.625 as you come into the building, there's a door. 09:44.709 --> 09:47.962 And that door was for an apartment on the first floor. 09:48.045 --> 09:51.882 She rented that apartment to a white male named Manny Guerin. 09:53.175 --> 09:55.261 [Hovagim] The staff told us that Irene Silverman 09:55.344 --> 09:57.680 usually did background checks on her tenants. 09:57.763 --> 10:00.224 However, in this case, she didn't. 10:00.308 --> 10:04.520 A butcher who Irene used, that was a mutual friend, 10:04.603 --> 10:07.898 recommended Irene's town house to Manny Guerin. 10:09.692 --> 10:15.990 On June 14th, he paid $6,000 for one month upfront in cash. 10:18.868 --> 10:22.872 The staff mentioned that from the moment he came into the building, 10:22.955 --> 10:26.208 Irene felt that he was not a nice person. 10:27.293 --> 10:31.881 He would often listen to Irene talking to the staff in the foyer. 10:31.964 --> 10:33.132 And they knew that 10:33.215 --> 10:36.802 because they would see his feet right by the front door. 10:37.720 --> 10:38.804 We were told by staff 10:38.888 --> 10:43.601 that Manny was also sneaking a woman into the building named Eva. 10:44.435 --> 10:47.688 They described her as an older woman, well-dressed. 10:47.772 --> 10:50.650 Eva is a person that Manny claims he worked with, 10:50.733 --> 10:52.401 almost like an assistant. 10:53.527 --> 10:57.239 When we go into Irene's office, there's papers on her desk, 10:57.323 --> 11:01.452 and there's notes that she wrote about the tenant in 1B. 11:01.535 --> 11:03.913 Some of the notes said he was very suspicious. 11:03.996 --> 11:05.706 She didn't trust him and wanted him out. 11:06.665 --> 11:09.168 [Vazquez] She actually drew a little sketch of him 11:09.251 --> 11:11.670 and a description of his height. 11:13.255 --> 11:15.091 She wrote, "He looks like jail." 11:15.925 --> 11:21.722 [Toi] I remember the very first day Manny moved into the rental space. 11:21.806 --> 11:25.059 I was having lunch with Irene at the basement. 11:25.643 --> 11:28.437 And then we hear the elevator door open. 11:28.938 --> 11:32.983 Immediately, Irene sent Marta, who's the maid, to the elevator. 11:33.067 --> 11:36.779 Said, "Please tell Manny, the tenant, this is a private area." 11:36.862 --> 11:39.490 "No tenants are allowed in this area." 11:41.534 --> 11:44.620 When Marta finally came back to the dining table, 11:44.704 --> 11:46.247 I'll never forget, Irene told me, 11:46.330 --> 11:48.749 "You know what? I'm very suspicious of this guy." 11:50.709 --> 11:54.922 I said, "Irene, why are you taking in someone that you suspected?" 11:55.798 --> 11:58.300 She said, "I trusted my butcher, 11:58.801 --> 12:01.178 so I did not ask for a background check, 12:01.262 --> 12:05.307 and then I agreed to rent them the apartment for a month." 12:05.391 --> 12:07.852 [uneasy music playing] 12:07.935 --> 12:09.937 When we find out about the guy in 1B, 12:10.020 --> 12:12.940 that's when I was like, "Oh, this is not good." 12:13.023 --> 12:16.569 So all these flags are going up, saying, "Hey, This guy's a shithead." 12:17.945 --> 12:20.948 We do a physical check of the apartment that Manny rented 12:21.031 --> 12:25.411 to make sure that she was not in there laying wounded or maybe even dead. 12:27.705 --> 12:29.540 The apartment was dimly lit. 12:30.040 --> 12:32.168 It wasn't a mess, but it wasn't tidy. 12:32.251 --> 12:34.295 The bed was unmade. 12:34.378 --> 12:37.465 There was boxes of food on the counter. 12:38.382 --> 12:42.928 In the garbage can in the apartment, there was a wad of duct tape. 12:43.554 --> 12:47.308 Also recovered was a spool of rope or string. 12:48.184 --> 12:52.271 One of the staff members notices a comforter from the room is missing. 12:52.354 --> 12:56.984 And we find an empty shower curtain box with just the rings in it. 12:58.486 --> 13:03.407 Why would you need a shower curtain in an apartment with glass sliding doors? 13:03.491 --> 13:05.159 You don't need a shower curtain. 13:05.242 --> 13:08.829 At that point, we were thinking we might have an abduction of some kind. 13:16.420 --> 13:20.925 We bring her staff back to the precinct to do a sketch of Manny Guerin, 13:22.009 --> 13:25.221 the person in 1B that was acting suspicious. 13:25.304 --> 13:29.141 I was assigned to stay in the town house that night. 13:29.850 --> 13:31.227 That was my "oh shit" moment. 13:31.310 --> 13:33.103 I'm a junior detective. 13:33.187 --> 13:34.939 This is my ball of wax. 13:35.022 --> 13:37.608 We thought maybe there'd be a knock at the door of a witness. 13:37.691 --> 13:41.779 Maybe Irene would walk through the door, a phone call, could've been anything. 13:42.363 --> 13:46.408 The only one who was with me was George, Irene's dog. 13:51.413 --> 13:55.501 [chief] In July of 1998, I had the rank of deputy inspector. 13:55.584 --> 13:59.338 I was also in charge of Manhattan North detective operations, 13:59.421 --> 14:04.385 which oversaw the 12 precincts in Manhattan North 14:04.468 --> 14:07.721 from 59th Street up to the tip of Manhattan. 14:08.430 --> 14:11.976 We have what we call "special category missing persons." 14:12.059 --> 14:14.853 Irene fit at least two of them. 14:15.521 --> 14:20.109 One was that she was 82 years old at the time. 14:20.192 --> 14:24.446 And the second was she seems to have disappeared involuntarily 14:24.530 --> 14:27.116 and something drastic has happened to her. 14:27.199 --> 14:30.327 Special category missing person prompts 14:30.411 --> 14:32.913 a temporary headquarters to be established. 14:33.998 --> 14:36.375 [sergeant] I get a phone call from Inspector Reznick saying, 14:36.458 --> 14:39.795 "Was, you're gonna have to go to the 19th Precinct with your team." 14:39.878 --> 14:42.882 Joe wanted to have the best guys 14:42.965 --> 14:45.801 or the guys that were attention-to-detail guys. 14:46.385 --> 14:49.763 [Hovagim] Joe Reznick is a tough boss to work for, I'm not gonna lie. 14:49.847 --> 14:51.557 He's a no-nonsense kind of guy, 14:51.640 --> 14:54.560 but if I had a relative that was missing or murdered, 14:54.643 --> 14:56.854 I'd want him running this investigation. 15:00.691 --> 15:03.193 [Reznick] We immediately had cards made up 15:03.694 --> 15:05.905 with Irene Silverman's picture on it. 15:05.988 --> 15:09.033 [officer over PA] If you have information regarding the disappearance 15:09.116 --> 15:11.535 or whereabouts of Mrs. Irene Silverman, 15:11.619 --> 15:13.454 please contact Crime Stoppers. 15:13.537 --> 15:16.373 Detectives would literally stand out on the corner 15:16.457 --> 15:19.919 and hand out flyers and ask people if they saw anything strange. 15:20.002 --> 15:23.213 Now the press gets ahold of it, and that's it. It just explodes. 15:23.297 --> 15:25.925 [reporter 1] The 82-year-old woman vanished from her mansion. 15:26.008 --> 15:28.469 [reporter 2] Silverman was last seen alive July 5th. 15:28.552 --> 15:32.848 [Reznick] We have a elderly female who has disappeared very mysteriously. 15:32.931 --> 15:37.436 We have a occupant of an apartment who she rented to 15:37.519 --> 15:41.315 less than three weeks ago, who has also disappeared mysteriously. 15:42.232 --> 15:44.860 We also mentioned that we were looking for the person 15:44.944 --> 15:49.198 in the composite sketch known as "Manny Guerin." 15:49.281 --> 15:52.326 We're looking for him in connection with Ms. Silverman's disappearance. 15:57.706 --> 15:59.667 [Vazquez] The day after this press conference… 15:59.750 --> 16:00.793 [phone ringing] 16:00.876 --> 16:02.962 …the 19th squad gets a call 16:03.045 --> 16:08.133 from an NYPD detective who's part of a joint fugitive task force 16:08.801 --> 16:11.762 where FBI agents and NYPD detectives 16:11.845 --> 16:16.350 are assigned to locate fugitives wanted not only in New York, 16:16.433 --> 16:18.102 but from around the country. 16:19.645 --> 16:25.234 [Reznick] He said that on July 5th, when Irene Silverman was reported missing, 16:25.317 --> 16:28.570 he had arrested two people, a mother and a son, 16:28.654 --> 16:31.198 at about 55th Street and 6th Avenue 16:31.281 --> 16:34.368 on a warrant that they had from Utah 16:34.451 --> 16:40.124 for buying a car with a stolen check that they drove to New York City. 16:41.625 --> 16:44.837 The detective from the fugitive task force told us that 16:46.005 --> 16:48.590 they both had on their possession 16:48.674 --> 16:51.385 identification that belonged to Irene Silverman. 16:52.136 --> 16:57.599 [Vazquez] They were identified as Kenny Kimes and his mother, Sante Kimes. 16:59.226 --> 17:02.688 [Wasielewski] In her pocketbook was $10,000 in cash. 17:02.771 --> 17:05.357 When questioned about why she had $10,000 cash, 17:05.441 --> 17:08.360 she said, "You need a lot of cash to visit New York," 17:08.444 --> 17:10.362 which didn't make any sense. 17:10.446 --> 17:15.367 I don't know who carries $10,000 cash in their pocketbook. 17:15.451 --> 17:17.578 I have a gun, and I wouldn't go to New York 17:17.661 --> 17:19.997 with $10,000 cash in my pocket. 17:20.080 --> 17:25.669 But also there's a ring of keys with red nail polish, which were Irene's. 17:25.753 --> 17:28.172 [Reznick] I thought we were looking for Manny Guerin, 17:28.255 --> 17:30.215 but when I heard about that, 17:30.299 --> 17:32.217 I says, "Are you fucking kidding me?" 17:34.511 --> 17:38.015 With this new information, we grab a car, and we go down 17:38.098 --> 17:41.143 to Manhattan Central Booking to interview Kenny. 17:42.811 --> 17:46.398 When I first walked in, I thought, "Holy shit." 17:47.691 --> 17:53.030 Kenny matched the sketch of Manny Guerin pretty dead-on. 17:55.282 --> 17:58.494 I was convinced we had Manny Guerin, for sure. 17:59.495 --> 18:03.624 We asked him, "Why do you have Irene's ID? Do you know Irene?" 18:03.707 --> 18:05.584 "Yes, I… I know her." 18:05.667 --> 18:09.755 "Um, I think my mother was friends with her." 18:10.923 --> 18:14.885 We said, "Kenny, think of Irene. She could be alive somewhere." 18:14.968 --> 18:15.886 "Maybe she's missing." 18:15.969 --> 18:18.472 "Maybe you could help us find her. Why don't you talk to us?" 18:18.555 --> 18:20.599 "What if that was your mother? How would you feel?" 18:21.475 --> 18:23.685 There was a glimmer of light. 18:23.769 --> 18:26.522 There were tears in his eyes. I remember it. 18:27.606 --> 18:30.776 And I thought that he would start talking to us 18:30.859 --> 18:32.903 and he was gonna fall on the sword. 18:33.654 --> 18:38.534 But seconds later, it's like a switch went off inside of him. 18:39.576 --> 18:40.994 He just became very stoic, 18:41.078 --> 18:43.163 turned to stone, and asked for an attorney. 18:45.124 --> 18:48.210 When I was leaving, I was 100% convinced 18:48.293 --> 18:50.754 that he had a big part of Irene's disappearance. 18:53.674 --> 18:57.302 His mother, Sante Kimes, was at the FBI building downtown 18:57.386 --> 19:00.514 waiting to be arraigned for the stolen car case. 19:00.597 --> 19:03.475 And I was hoping that the detectives who were interviewing her 19:03.559 --> 19:06.979 were having more success than we were. 19:07.062 --> 19:12.192 But she requested an attorney, and the, uh, interview was shut down. 19:17.823 --> 19:20.117 So we do a background check on them. 19:20.200 --> 19:22.286 See what they were arrested for in the past. 19:22.953 --> 19:26.790 We saw that Kenny never had any major run-ins with the law. 19:27.708 --> 19:29.376 Then we looked at Sante, and… 19:29.877 --> 19:32.504 You couldn't believe the horrific things that they say. 19:33.755 --> 19:37.843 [producer] At one point, I was assigned the story of 19:37.926 --> 19:40.971 what happened here to Irene Silverman in New York. 19:41.555 --> 19:46.101 And I found out that Sante Kimes was orphaned when she was younger, 19:46.185 --> 19:49.313 and she sort of bounced around from house to house, 19:49.396 --> 19:53.483 whether it was an orphanage or a friend of a friend. 19:53.567 --> 19:54.943 She was very poor. 19:56.028 --> 20:00.741 She met Kenneth Kimes Sr. in 1970. 20:01.241 --> 20:05.370 He was in the construction business and owned a chain of motels. 20:05.996 --> 20:09.249 They had houses in the Bahamas, 20:09.333 --> 20:12.711 oceanfront property in Honolulu, 20:12.794 --> 20:15.422 a house in Las Vegas. 20:15.505 --> 20:18.050 They were living the high life. 20:19.676 --> 20:22.429 A couple of years after they met each other, 20:22.512 --> 20:25.224 she and her husband had Kenneth Kimes Jr. 20:27.976 --> 20:31.480 Sante Kimes definitely considered Kenneth her little prince, 20:32.272 --> 20:35.317 but Sante would control everything that Kenneth did, 20:35.400 --> 20:39.446 to the point where she decided to homeschool him, not send him to school. 20:40.322 --> 20:45.369 Kenny did what Mommy said. He… If Mommy said to jump, he jumped. 20:46.787 --> 20:50.999 [Reznick] She knew how to manipulate things to her needs. 20:51.500 --> 20:53.293 Sante was a con artist. 20:53.377 --> 20:56.046 Don't tape me when I can't, like… 20:57.297 --> 21:03.053 She had, I think, 11 different aliases listed on her arrest histories, 21:03.136 --> 21:07.724 which included insurance fraud, some larcenies. 21:08.308 --> 21:11.561 [Zone] Sante Kimes, I think, loved danger. 21:11.645 --> 21:15.732 She liked to see how much she could get away with. 21:16.775 --> 21:21.113 She claimed that her husband was an ambassador 21:21.196 --> 21:27.703 and somehow got invited to a reception being thrown for Gerald Ford. 21:28.495 --> 21:33.667 There's a picture of her and Kenneth Kimes shaking President Ford's hand. 21:33.750 --> 21:38.797 To this day, no one knows how she got through Secret Service. 21:38.880 --> 21:41.800 She had a way of entering a room, 21:41.883 --> 21:45.595 and everybody would look over and say, "Look how she's dressed!" 21:46.430 --> 21:50.726 "Oh my God! Look at her jewelry! She must belong here." 21:50.809 --> 21:53.145 [Reznick] Another one of the things that stood out 21:53.228 --> 21:56.898 was a slavery charge back in 1985. 21:58.567 --> 22:03.572 Sante Kimes would hire help from Mexico to clean her big homes. 22:04.156 --> 22:07.451 She would treat them really badly. 22:09.619 --> 22:13.498 [Reznick] She would lock maids in their rooms. 22:13.582 --> 22:16.585 One of them subsequently testified at that trial 22:17.627 --> 22:20.130 that she was burned by an iron. 22:21.465 --> 22:24.801 They gave her the name "the Dragon Lady." 22:25.844 --> 22:28.263 It's a different crazy, is what it is. 22:28.847 --> 22:30.307 She's a psychopath. 22:30.390 --> 22:33.310 Sante was sentenced to five years in prison. 22:35.020 --> 22:39.107 However, her husband was never prosecuted for that case. 22:40.150 --> 22:44.321 [Zone] She served three years out of a five-year term. 22:45.906 --> 22:52.329 Then Kenneth Kimes Sr. died in 1994 of a brain aneurysm. 22:53.872 --> 22:57.751 And when he died, this threw Sante's life in a tailspin. 22:58.585 --> 23:02.923 She was like, "How am I going to continue my lifestyle?" 23:03.006 --> 23:06.551 As long as Sante ended up on top, that's all she cared about. 23:08.261 --> 23:13.850 [Reznick] After his father's death, mother and son were hooked hip to hip. 23:13.934 --> 23:16.770 Whatever ventures they got involved with, they did it together. 23:18.397 --> 23:21.942 Befriending the Kimes was a very dangerous proposition. 23:23.610 --> 23:28.407 People they knew seemed to disappear out of the blue. 23:29.199 --> 23:31.243 [Hovagim] One of them was David Kazdin. 23:31.743 --> 23:35.372 David Kazdin was, uh, an associate of Sante and Kenneth Kimes, 23:35.455 --> 23:37.707 a business partner in some sense. 23:38.291 --> 23:42.129 [Vazquez] She took out a fraudulent loan against David Kazdin's home. 23:42.212 --> 23:44.840 He gets, I believe it was, a coupon book for payments 23:44.923 --> 23:49.845 on a $250,000, $300,000 loan that he was totally unaware of. 23:50.679 --> 23:52.514 And he went to the authorities. 23:53.557 --> 23:55.016 [Hovagim] Shortly after that, 23:55.100 --> 23:59.354 they found Kazdin's body in a dumpster by LAX airport. 24:01.189 --> 24:05.360 But at that point, the LAPD didn't have enough 24:05.444 --> 24:09.281 to arrest Sante and Kenneth Kimes for the murder of David Kazdin. 24:09.364 --> 24:12.242 And at that point, Sante and Kenny 24:12.325 --> 24:15.036 drove all the way across country in the stolen car 24:15.120 --> 24:19.166 so they could rent the apartment in Irene's town house. 24:22.919 --> 24:26.798 [Reznick] There were discussions about whether they should be extradited to LA 24:26.882 --> 24:29.134 to face the David Kazdin murder, 24:29.217 --> 24:31.511 or leave 'em here in New York. 24:31.595 --> 24:32.971 Well, I got news for you. 24:33.054 --> 24:35.182 If someone is killed here in New York City, 24:35.265 --> 24:39.060 the case should stay here in New York City until it's totally resolved. 24:39.144 --> 24:43.773 And, trust me, there was just a voluminous amount of work 24:43.857 --> 24:46.151 that had to be accomplished yet. 24:46.693 --> 24:48.570 [tense, mysterious music playing] 24:48.653 --> 24:51.031 [reporter] News Channel 4 took these exclusive pictures 24:51.114 --> 24:52.991 of the K9 police dog unit 24:53.074 --> 24:56.453 and the crime scene technicians going to the basement garage 24:56.536 --> 24:59.623 where the car Kenneth Kimes drove was being held. 25:00.123 --> 25:02.626 The search warrant was conducted on the green Lincoln Town Car. 25:04.503 --> 25:05.754 [Hovagim] We open up the trunk. 25:06.630 --> 25:07.964 Nothing, just garbage. 25:08.715 --> 25:11.426 Everything is piled in the backseat of the car. 25:11.510 --> 25:13.428 And there was a lot of shit, man. 25:14.387 --> 25:16.973 It took eight hours to go through that car. 25:17.599 --> 25:20.352 We recovered a box, uh, from a Taser gun. 25:20.435 --> 25:21.728 We found a clear liquid 25:21.811 --> 25:25.398 that was later identified as a knockout drug, like a roofie. 25:25.482 --> 25:28.318 We found Irene Silverman's Social Security card 25:28.401 --> 25:31.112 with some other papers that had Irene's name on it. 25:31.196 --> 25:34.699 We recovered all kinds of wigs, eavesdropping equipment. 25:35.367 --> 25:38.411 Sitting in the car were 15 notebooks 25:38.495 --> 25:44.668 that had notes meticulously detailing Irene's movements. 25:44.751 --> 25:47.212 When you look at the big picture, what's going on, 25:47.295 --> 25:48.964 those are pretty telling things. 25:50.674 --> 25:54.844 Also in those notebooks was how to take possession of Irene's house. 25:54.928 --> 25:58.807 "Get notary, get title, get deed." 25:59.558 --> 26:02.310 Also recovered from the car was a microcassette 26:02.394 --> 26:03.937 with some cassette tapes. 26:04.020 --> 26:05.939 And we listened to them. 26:08.400 --> 26:12.612 And one of them had Sante posing 26:12.696 --> 26:15.657 as a person calling Irene, 26:15.740 --> 26:20.620 saying that she won a trip to go to Las Vegas to stay at Circus Circus. 26:23.081 --> 26:24.332 [Sante] You better sit down. 26:24.416 --> 26:25.292 [Irene] Okay. 26:25.375 --> 26:28.378 [Sante] I have a wonderful surprise for you. 26:28.461 --> 26:29.296 [Irene] What? 26:29.379 --> 26:31.840 [Sante] You have won a free trip. 26:31.923 --> 26:35.176 All expenses, airfare, hotel. 26:35.260 --> 26:39.681 The whole gist of the call was to try to get Irene Silverman 26:39.764 --> 26:43.351 to divulge over the phone her Social Security number. 26:43.435 --> 26:44.936 [Sante] So, are you sitting down? 26:45.020 --> 26:49.649 [Irene] I am. I'm sitting down. I'm also wondering what the catch is. 26:49.733 --> 26:51.234 [Sante] There's no catch. 26:51.318 --> 26:53.653 Can I have a Social Security? 26:54.237 --> 26:55.822 [Wasielewski] She was trying to get info 26:55.905 --> 26:59.242 she could use on the deeds, and the forged papers, and stuff. 26:59.326 --> 27:02.620 [Irene] Mm-hmm. I don't know my number, to tell you the truth. 27:02.704 --> 27:06.916 [Sante] I have to have the number to send you the information. 27:07.000 --> 27:10.754 She tried every which way to get that number out of Irene, 27:10.837 --> 27:13.214 and Irene was not fucking having it, man. 27:14.007 --> 27:18.762 [Irene] Well, you send me whatever you have there, 27:18.845 --> 27:21.431 and if I like it, the idea, 27:21.514 --> 27:24.809 then I'll give you my Social Security number. 27:26.603 --> 27:29.606 [Vazquez] With all the information that we had recovered, 27:29.689 --> 27:31.983 we weren't dealing with a missing person. 27:32.067 --> 27:34.361 We knew we were looking for a homicide victim. 27:36.946 --> 27:40.450 I have a great reader, or fortune teller, whatever you call. 27:41.201 --> 27:46.247 So as soon as I sat down, he looked at me. He said, "I'm so sorry for your loss." 27:47.290 --> 27:50.794 And he said, "Your great friend is no longer with us." 27:52.545 --> 27:58.426 Immense sadness and emotion came immediately then. 27:58.510 --> 28:00.929 And also then I immediately went into denial. 28:01.012 --> 28:03.765 I said, "Maybe he's wrong. I hope this time he's wrong." 28:06.309 --> 28:08.812 [Hovagim] Knowing this is gonna be a homicide case, 28:08.895 --> 28:12.190 we still felt we needed a body to put these people away. 28:12.273 --> 28:14.901 We knew they did it, but without a body, 28:14.984 --> 28:17.362 there was a good chance that they might get off. 28:17.445 --> 28:19.197 Personally, I was pissed off. 28:19.280 --> 28:22.325 I wanted to go back and punch Kenny in the face 28:22.409 --> 28:23.993 and get the information out of him. 28:30.125 --> 28:32.836 [Vazquez] There was a tip line for a person to call 28:32.919 --> 28:36.464 with information as to the sightings of the green Lincoln Town Car. 28:36.548 --> 28:38.049 [multiple phones ringing] 28:38.133 --> 28:42.095 We were following up on every lead that we got. 28:43.096 --> 28:45.682 [Hovagim] We searched the Meadowlands out in Jersey. 28:45.765 --> 28:47.267 Meadowlands is no picnic. 28:47.350 --> 28:50.395 It's a swampy, tall grass area. 28:50.478 --> 28:52.188 It sucks. It sucks. 28:52.272 --> 28:56.735 It's just a smelly, dirty place to… to search, 28:56.818 --> 28:58.778 but perfect to dump a body. 28:59.571 --> 29:03.283 We find all kinds of garbage, all kinds of discarded containers, 29:03.366 --> 29:06.411 luggage, and what I call "Coney Island whitefish," 29:06.494 --> 29:08.997 meaning used condoms, used tampons. 29:10.540 --> 29:13.084 We were desperate to find Irene Silverman's body. 29:14.252 --> 29:18.006 Every tip that came in on this case, or any case, has to be investigated. 29:18.089 --> 29:21.926 As crazy as it may sound, one particular day, 29:22.010 --> 29:24.304 I recall being in the office. 29:24.387 --> 29:27.724 Someone's come to our office with a dead chicken. 29:28.766 --> 29:32.812 What brought my attention to it was the fucking smell. 29:32.896 --> 29:35.190 It reeked, and it permeated the office. 29:35.815 --> 29:39.360 [Vazquez] We were all told inside the anus of the dead chicken 29:39.444 --> 29:45.158 there is a note, and in that note, it says where Irene Silverman's body is. 29:45.241 --> 29:47.994 I says, "Get the fuck out of here." 29:48.578 --> 29:50.705 And I made them get her out of the office. 29:53.208 --> 29:58.630 But they took the chicken and her down to 126th Street, Amsterdam Avenue, 29:58.713 --> 30:02.592 where there was a chicken poultry farm, factory, whatever you want to call it, 30:02.675 --> 30:04.844 and they examined the chicken. 30:05.553 --> 30:07.764 As far as that chicken was concerned, 30:07.847 --> 30:10.809 there was no note in the chicken's ass. 30:13.812 --> 30:18.149 It was one of the lighter moments that we had during this investigation, 30:18.233 --> 30:21.194 but that's how much pressure we were under. 30:21.277 --> 30:24.781 Each and every lead that came in had to be answered. 30:28.201 --> 30:31.079 [Hovagim] The Kimes were still in jail for the stolen car, 30:31.162 --> 30:33.039 and we were listening to their calls. 30:33.998 --> 30:37.710 And we intercepted a call from Sante Kimes 30:37.794 --> 30:41.714 talking to a private investigator hired by the defense. 30:41.798 --> 30:47.762 She was advising him to go to The Plaza Hotel to retrieve a bag. 30:48.680 --> 30:52.517 With that, myself and another detective got into a car… 30:52.600 --> 30:53.643 [sirens wailing] 30:53.726 --> 30:57.605 …and rode, lights and sirens, down to The Plaza Hotel. 30:59.774 --> 31:02.443 A retired detective captain was the head of security there. 31:03.444 --> 31:07.115 He said, "A private investigator just came in and got the bag." 31:07.198 --> 31:08.700 Gave us his name. 31:08.783 --> 31:12.829 We have another detective looking up his private investigator's license. 31:14.080 --> 31:18.585 The PI's office was down by City Hall, so we went over there. 31:18.668 --> 31:22.297 First, he denied picking up the bag, and then we told him, 31:22.380 --> 31:25.633 "Listen, we know that you went and picked up the bag." 31:26.885 --> 31:30.263 "How do you think we got to your office, out of the blue?" 31:31.431 --> 31:34.100 So then he decided to surrender the bag. 31:34.642 --> 31:38.438 That was probably one of the biggest breaks in the case that we got. 31:39.272 --> 31:44.027 In that bag, we found a .22-caliber handgun, 31:45.111 --> 31:50.742 a power of attorney with Irene Silverman's signature on it. 31:51.284 --> 31:53.995 And we recovered a copy of the deed 31:54.078 --> 31:56.831 signed by Irene Silverman. 31:57.707 --> 31:59.792 What was noted on the deed was that, in fact, 31:59.876 --> 32:05.214 the house was being sold to the Atlantis Group, Incorporated, 32:05.298 --> 32:07.342 which we subsequently learned 32:07.425 --> 32:11.137 was a shell company created by Sante Kimes. 32:12.138 --> 32:15.350 We had handwriting analysis done on them, 32:15.433 --> 32:20.229 and sure enough, it came back that those documents were forged. 32:22.273 --> 32:27.820 We can see that it was notarized, signed, and dated by a specific notary. 32:29.614 --> 32:33.159 Once the notary was located, she was interviewed. 32:33.242 --> 32:36.871 The notary states that she came to Irene Silverman's building. 32:37.497 --> 32:40.375 She found herself in a room where it's dimly lit. 32:40.458 --> 32:41.751 It was dark. 32:42.502 --> 32:45.880 Sante Kimes was dressed up as Irene in a bed. 32:48.716 --> 32:52.220 You know, with a red wig on and something covering her face. 32:52.303 --> 32:55.765 The covers pulled up, just like Little Red Riding Hood. 32:56.599 --> 33:00.978 She had some ID, which was forged ID or whatever, 33:01.062 --> 33:03.439 and she notarized it, and that was it. 33:06.401 --> 33:08.820 The notary was asked to view a lineup 33:08.903 --> 33:12.657 of Sante and Kenny Kimes at the district attorney's office. 33:13.992 --> 33:18.871 And I remember sitting with Sante Kimes, guarding her before the lineup. 33:19.372 --> 33:21.457 She and I were the only ones in the room. 33:21.541 --> 33:25.503 Knowing that she's a con artist, I just decided to not drop my guard 33:25.586 --> 33:29.882 and not allow her to get me into any type of conversation. 33:29.966 --> 33:31.426 Two minutes later, I'm telling her, 33:31.509 --> 33:34.929 "Yeah, I'm separated. I live in Yonkers. My kids are ten and 12 years old." 33:36.055 --> 33:39.726 I should have known better than to let her engage with me. 33:40.226 --> 33:45.064 But she had the ability to just make you relax, 33:45.148 --> 33:46.399 make you relax to a point 33:46.482 --> 33:50.862 where you can just answer any and all questions that she asked. 33:50.945 --> 33:53.197 That's how she got information from people… 33:53.281 --> 33:55.283 …have to be-- Stop it! [Sante laughs] 33:55.366 --> 33:59.245 …to go forward with some sort of scam or fraud that she was planning to do. 34:01.789 --> 34:04.667 [Hovagim] The notary picked Sante right out of the lineup. 34:04.751 --> 34:06.210 No problem at all. 34:10.840 --> 34:15.928 Those forged documents became critical to the case 34:16.012 --> 34:17.555 because it was the motive. 34:18.723 --> 34:21.684 It painted a very persuasive picture 34:22.185 --> 34:26.689 that the Kimeses were creating a fraudulent transaction 34:26.773 --> 34:31.736 to make it look like Irene Silverman was turning over the town house to them. 34:32.653 --> 34:33.905 [Hovagim] Though we didn't have a body, 34:33.988 --> 34:38.659 we were convinced we could go forward with charging them with homicide. 34:41.245 --> 34:45.333 Five months after Irene went missing, in December 1998, 34:45.416 --> 34:49.003 Sante and Kenneth Kimes were finally indicted for murder in the second degree. 34:49.087 --> 34:53.508 They were indicted for burglary, for robbery, for eavesdropping. 34:53.591 --> 34:56.260 There were 84 counts of charges against them. 34:56.344 --> 34:58.262 That's a hell of a lot of counts. 34:58.846 --> 35:02.266 [reporter] From her jail cell, Kimes claims she's innocent. 35:02.350 --> 35:03.643 [Sante] Please help. 35:03.726 --> 35:06.062 I am pleading for our constitutional rights 35:06.145 --> 35:09.607 to a fair judge, trial, and venue, 35:09.690 --> 35:14.695 so that my wonderful young son's innocence can be proven to everyone. 35:15.404 --> 35:20.034 What was strange is how many times Sante and Kenny Kimes 35:20.118 --> 35:23.871 got to the media while waiting for their trial. 35:25.665 --> 35:27.708 [Sante] My son and I are innocent. 35:28.501 --> 35:31.712 There is a huge, evil cover-up going on. 35:31.796 --> 35:34.715 The police have made a terrible mistake. 35:34.799 --> 35:39.387 You have been led to think certain things about the both of us 35:39.470 --> 35:41.472 which are completely untrue. 35:42.765 --> 35:43.766 We are innocent. 35:43.850 --> 35:46.602 [Hovagim] It was really some act. 35:46.686 --> 35:53.192 Um, they were portrayed as being prosecuted for no good reason. 35:53.276 --> 35:55.862 "Look at my son. Does he look like a killer to you?" 35:56.863 --> 36:02.368 60 Minutes invited the Kimes to talk about what had happened. 36:02.952 --> 36:05.663 It certainly didn't appear to be a mother-son relationship. 36:06.372 --> 36:08.833 [Vazquez] They're holding hands, and Kenny, you know… 36:08.916 --> 36:10.835 complimenting his mother's looks. 36:10.918 --> 36:15.173 I think she's a beautiful person, spiritually and intellectually. 36:15.256 --> 36:17.717 -And physically. -[both laughing] 36:17.800 --> 36:20.469 [Vazquez] It was just the strangest thing to see 36:20.553 --> 36:22.847 of a mother and son who are adults. 36:22.930 --> 36:27.685 There was speculation that there was an incestuous relationship going on. 36:28.185 --> 36:31.397 I personally don't believe that. 36:31.898 --> 36:34.817 My belief is that 36:34.901 --> 36:38.946 she was in control of every aspect of his life. 36:39.030 --> 36:40.531 [Sante] Turn around, Kenny. 36:41.741 --> 36:44.827 She groomed Kenny to be a killer. 36:48.456 --> 36:53.336 The case goes to trial in January 2000, 36:53.419 --> 36:56.505 about a year and a half after Irene's disappearance. 36:58.007 --> 37:00.134 The main defense strategy was, 37:00.218 --> 37:03.221 "How can you possibly convict if there's no body?" 37:03.304 --> 37:06.223 I'm not sure there is another defense. 37:07.391 --> 37:10.144 But we were able to put on a four-month trial, 37:10.228 --> 37:13.522 and, uh, it went in quite smoothly. 37:13.606 --> 37:16.484 [Vazquez] Both Sante and Kenny Kimes were found guilty 37:17.818 --> 37:19.362 on every single charge. 37:21.614 --> 37:25.910 Each one of them were gonna get a minimum of 125 years to life. 37:27.453 --> 37:30.623 [Hovagim] Sante honestly thought she was smarter than everyone else. 37:30.706 --> 37:32.083 These schemes were feeding her, 37:32.166 --> 37:34.502 and she needed it like Dracula needs blood. 37:35.461 --> 37:36.963 [Reznick] And I'll say this. 37:37.046 --> 37:42.343 In their possession was a list of 16 other New Yorkers 37:42.426 --> 37:44.345 targeted by the Kimes. 37:44.428 --> 37:47.181 We checked with all them to make sure that they were okay. 37:50.768 --> 37:55.231 [Zone] In October 2000, when Sante and Kenny 37:55.314 --> 37:58.818 were awaiting extradition to the State of California 37:58.901 --> 38:02.613 where they faced the murder trial of David Kazdin, 38:02.697 --> 38:06.200 I was assigned to produce a documentary for Court TV. 38:06.701 --> 38:10.162 Kenny agreed, ultimately, to do an interview with me on camera. 38:12.623 --> 38:15.293 He walked in, and he looked scary. 38:15.376 --> 38:19.088 He had the darkest, blackest eyes 38:19.171 --> 38:22.383 that just seared right through me. 38:24.218 --> 38:26.929 Cameraman, audio person start rolling. 38:27.013 --> 38:30.599 Within 40 minutes, he had asked me for three breaks. 38:30.683 --> 38:35.730 If I may ask, uh, could we take a break in maybe five or ten minutes? 38:35.813 --> 38:39.442 The last break, he asked, "Would you mind getting me something to eat?" 38:40.735 --> 38:44.155 So I went to the vending machines. 38:44.905 --> 38:46.824 I reach out to give him these items. 38:48.117 --> 38:55.041 And before I know it, he's around my back with his right arm across my… my neck. 38:55.624 --> 38:59.879 And he said to me, "This is a hostage situation." 39:00.921 --> 39:02.840 Sirens are going off. 39:04.008 --> 39:07.386 Kenny notices that the cameraman has the camera still rolling. 39:07.470 --> 39:10.097 And he said, "Stop the fucking camera!" 39:10.181 --> 39:12.433 Cameraman, back! 39:16.395 --> 39:20.274 Being that close to him was disgusting. 39:20.775 --> 39:24.862 I could feel his heart pounding against my back. 39:24.945 --> 39:26.947 -Um… -[rhythmic thumping] 39:29.408 --> 39:32.995 I, uh, could feel his sweat. 39:35.206 --> 39:37.541 I remember him flicking this pen. 39:38.793 --> 39:42.338 And right away, I'm thinking, "He's gonna stab me with this pen." 39:43.923 --> 39:47.468 The prison officials that had come into the room were saying, 39:48.219 --> 39:49.887 "Kenneth, calm down." 39:50.513 --> 39:53.349 "You're not gonna accomplish anything by doing this." 39:53.432 --> 39:56.894 I said to him, "Why are you doing this?" 39:56.977 --> 39:58.521 And right away, he said, 39:58.604 --> 40:02.733 "My mother is old. She cannot handle another trial." 40:02.817 --> 40:07.822 "I want my mother and I to be extradited to Canada." 40:10.699 --> 40:12.993 It was really terrifying. 40:14.995 --> 40:17.748 Five long hours had gone by. 40:18.541 --> 40:24.171 And I said to him, "Kenneth, you know… do you know how to pray?" 40:24.255 --> 40:25.756 "Let's pray together." 40:25.840 --> 40:27.675 And he said, "Yes, I do." 40:27.758 --> 40:30.761 And, like, this calmness came across his face. 40:31.637 --> 40:36.183 After we prayed together, a hostage negotiator said to Kenny, 40:36.267 --> 40:39.061 "Kenny, it's been long enough." 40:39.145 --> 40:42.940 He said, "This is my business card. Let me help you." 40:43.441 --> 40:47.444 Kenny went to grab it, which means he let me go. 40:47.528 --> 40:51.991 And that was my opportunity to just storm out of that room. 40:52.741 --> 40:55.453 There was at least a half dozen guys in there. 40:55.536 --> 40:57.079 They jumped him. 40:57.663 --> 41:01.208 And I didn't look back. I just kept on going. 41:01.834 --> 41:07.006 But I was just, um, so grateful to be alive. 41:13.137 --> 41:15.848 [reporter] Kenneth Kimes helped his mother kill a wealthy widow. 41:15.931 --> 41:17.725 Now he's admitting to another murder. 41:17.808 --> 41:19.935 He surprised a courtroom in Los Angeles 41:20.019 --> 41:23.522 by pleading guilty to killing a businessman, David Kazdin. 41:24.023 --> 41:26.567 He made a cooperation agreement 41:26.650 --> 41:29.904 with the LA County district attorney's office 41:29.987 --> 41:32.948 in which he testified against his mother. 41:33.949 --> 41:37.828 He confessed to the murder of David Kazdin… 41:39.413 --> 41:42.208 and the murder of Irene Silverman 41:42.291 --> 41:47.338 in exchange for a sentence that did not include the death penalty 41:48.464 --> 41:50.049 for himself and his mother. 41:56.013 --> 41:59.308 Kenny said that Irene Silverman knocked on his door. 42:00.684 --> 42:02.186 He pulled her into the apartment. 42:02.978 --> 42:05.564 He stun-gunned her. She dropped to the floor. 42:06.607 --> 42:08.317 He choked her to death. 42:09.193 --> 42:11.362 Then took a shower curtain, wrapped her up, 42:11.445 --> 42:13.489 taped her up with the duct tape. 42:14.949 --> 42:16.575 Put her in a duffel bag. 42:17.743 --> 42:19.703 Put her in the trunk of his car. 42:20.204 --> 42:22.831 Drove downtown through the Lincoln Tunnel. 42:23.457 --> 42:25.209 He goes, "I saw a dumpster." 42:25.292 --> 42:27.878 "I put her body in the dumpster, and that was it." 42:32.967 --> 42:34.343 Justice was served. 42:35.469 --> 42:37.721 But we didn't have Irene's body. 42:38.681 --> 42:40.849 You know, it'll haunt me to my death. 42:42.101 --> 42:43.894 That a… a great woman like that, 42:43.978 --> 42:46.689 who actually contributed something to society, 42:46.772 --> 42:52.152 doesn't even have closure in her life where her body was never laid to rest. 42:52.236 --> 42:54.238 [somber music playing] 42:54.947 --> 42:57.032 It's still an open case in my mind. 42:59.243 --> 43:03.247 I'm hoping one day her remains are found, and there's DNA, 43:03.330 --> 43:06.250 and I get a phone call saying, "Hey, we found Irene." 43:07.376 --> 43:09.461 Do I think that's gonna happen? No, I don't. 43:09.545 --> 43:11.672 But do I hope it happens? 100%. 43:11.755 --> 43:14.592 I'd love to get that phone call. I really would. 43:17.720 --> 43:20.848 [Toi] It took at least ten years for me to come to terms 43:20.931 --> 43:24.059 that someone really, really killed her. 43:29.273 --> 43:33.777 I had that fantasy that they were keeping Irene somewhere, 43:33.861 --> 43:36.739 put her away somewhere, a little town somewhere. 43:36.822 --> 43:39.033 Maybe she'll reappear. 43:39.116 --> 43:42.202 But, sadly, the last few years, I came to terms. 43:44.038 --> 43:47.958 I came to terms that… I know she's no longer with us, 43:48.042 --> 43:50.544 but she's smiling down at me every day. 43:53.088 --> 43:58.969 Every time I cross 65th Street, I always look up to the beautiful home. 44:00.387 --> 44:02.640 I say a quiet hello to her. 44:04.975 --> 44:08.520 And tell her quietly that I miss her. 44:10.647 --> 44:12.149 [music trailing off] 44:22.242 --> 44:23.202 [phone ringing] 44:23.285 --> 44:26.288 [man] I get a call that a guest is experiencing 44:26.372 --> 44:29.416 a heavy leak of water into their room. 44:30.501 --> 44:34.546 [Panuccio] Soho House is a very exclusive, high-end club, 44:34.630 --> 44:36.632 and we have a young woman dead in the bathtub. 44:37.758 --> 44:42.554 The identity of the victim was Sylvie Cachay, female, 33 years old. 44:43.263 --> 44:46.475 She was a fashion designer, swimsuit designer. 44:47.518 --> 44:51.522 She was just the perfect member to be a part of Soho House. 44:51.605 --> 44:54.108 [Moller] She checked in with her boyfriend, 44:54.191 --> 44:55.484 and he's no longer there. 44:56.026 --> 44:58.153 So, yeah, it is suspicious. 44:59.154 --> 45:01.740 And then we find the "fuck you" email. 45:02.324 --> 45:04.034 A picture's starting to emerge. 45:05.077 --> 45:08.705 There are situations you hope to never be in. 45:09.456 --> 45:12.626 What happened in that room, it's not something you can forget about. 45:19.133 --> 45:21.135 [dramatic outro music pulsing] s not something you can forget about.