1 00:00:23,898 --> 00:00:25,942 Hi, Mrs. Bowman. I'm Lt. Squyres 2 00:00:26,026 --> 00:00:28,403 from the Norfolk, VA Police Department in Homicide. 3 00:00:28,486 --> 00:00:30,071 This is Det. Smith. 4 00:00:32,282 --> 00:00:34,909 I'm sorry we have to meet you under these circumstances. 5 00:00:34,993 --> 00:00:37,579 I know it's very tragic, and it's very hard for you. 6 00:00:38,329 --> 00:00:42,333 I can tell you about the crime that he's charged with at this point? 7 00:00:43,752 --> 00:00:45,503 [Brenda Bowman] It's so very long ago. 8 00:00:45,587 --> 00:00:49,424 I think I can take you back to the place where this happened. 9 00:00:50,675 --> 00:00:51,718 1980. 10 00:00:54,846 --> 00:00:56,848 We'd been married nine years. 11 00:00:57,849 --> 00:00:59,851 Now we've been married 47. 12 00:01:00,852 --> 00:01:04,439 And for 47 years, you've been being a very dedicated wife, 13 00:01:04,522 --> 00:01:06,274 giving him the benefit of the doubt. 14 00:01:06,775 --> 00:01:09,736 But it appears to me that he betrayed that trust, 15 00:01:09,819 --> 00:01:12,655 that loyalty that you extended to him. 16 00:01:13,448 --> 00:01:15,283 And you being a good person 17 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:17,118 would never imagine… 18 00:01:19,204 --> 00:01:21,414 that he could do something this horrific. 19 00:01:22,415 --> 00:01:25,043 He's gonna be indicted for murder and rape. 20 00:10:02,059 --> 00:10:04,228 [Brenda] My life's… 21 00:10:04,312 --> 00:10:06,480 upside down right now. 22 00:10:07,148 --> 00:10:09,859 [Lt. Squyres] What my impression is, what my experience tells me, 23 00:10:10,359 --> 00:10:14,280 is that your husband has been doing a lot of bad things for a very long time. 24 00:10:14,989 --> 00:10:17,199 He's out here hurting people, 25 00:10:18,576 --> 00:10:19,660 raping people, 26 00:10:20,453 --> 00:10:21,579 and killing people. 27 00:10:23,331 --> 00:10:27,001 And it's terrible, and I wish I was not here having to talk to you about this. 28 00:10:27,501 --> 00:10:29,295 But he did a very brutal thing. 29 00:10:29,378 --> 00:10:33,674 And I want you to think about how he betrayed you and your family. 30 00:10:33,758 --> 00:10:35,718 I can't take anymore. 31 00:10:35,801 --> 00:10:37,470 Okay. I understand. 32 00:10:39,388 --> 00:10:40,681 [Dennis] I heard her down there. 33 00:10:40,765 --> 00:10:41,974 You arrested my wife? 34 00:10:42,058 --> 00:10:43,184 [Lt. Squyres] She's here. 35 00:10:43,934 --> 00:10:45,936 Now, you brought all this to your family. 36 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:47,980 I didn't bring anything to my family. 37 00:10:48,064 --> 00:10:49,607 -Yeah you did. -I did not. 38 00:19:18,782 --> 00:19:21,160 [Dennis] She's calling us four times a night, you know, 39 00:19:21,243 --> 00:19:23,412 like 12, one in the morning, saying, 40 00:19:23,912 --> 00:19:26,456 "Oh, we're gonna get ya. You murdered her." 41 00:19:55,485 --> 00:19:58,739 [Dennis] A year and a half of hassles by some crazy lady 42 00:19:58,822 --> 00:20:04,912 calling us murderers and spreading rumors all over Allegan County. 43 00:20:05,412 --> 00:20:08,415 [Brenda] Cathy hears something that's been misconstrued, 44 00:20:09,041 --> 00:20:11,084 and then she misconstrues it more. 45 00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:16,048 And then it goes back to Aundria's lies about, 46 00:20:16,131 --> 00:20:19,468 "My dad did this. My mom did this. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." 47 00:20:20,302 --> 00:20:22,888 To this day, through all of this, 48 00:20:22,971 --> 00:20:25,307 I can't stand a liar. 49 00:21:23,657 --> 00:21:24,658 [Det. Smith] Hey, Dennis. 50 00:21:25,158 --> 00:21:26,201 What's your name? 51 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:27,369 Jon. 52 00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:37,963 I was gonna come and ask you if you want anything else to eat. 53 00:21:38,046 --> 00:21:38,964 No. 54 00:22:07,326 --> 00:22:08,910 Oh, he's not even in here. 55 00:22:09,619 --> 00:22:12,622 No, he took my cuffs off and shut the door and walked out. 56 00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:17,627 He got me a Starbucks, deep roast. 57 00:22:17,711 --> 00:22:19,004 Right now I'm drinking it. 58 00:22:19,087 --> 00:22:21,715 He said we could talk while I was drinking my coffee. 59 00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:24,801 He's been real good, honey. 60 00:22:48,825 --> 00:22:50,952 How's your knees doing? I remember-- 61 00:22:51,036 --> 00:22:52,621 My knees are all right. My back's killing me. 62 00:22:52,704 --> 00:22:53,705 Back's killing you? 63 00:22:53,789 --> 00:22:58,835 I've been collecting bladed weapons since I was 12. 64 00:22:59,586 --> 00:23:02,214 I've got 115, all right? 65 00:23:02,297 --> 00:23:07,969 Not one time in my life have I ever heard my mother say, "I love you." 66 00:23:08,053 --> 00:23:10,555 And the last thing my dad told me was, he said, 67 00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:13,975 "Your mom's got a heart of gold. Hard and cold." 68 00:23:30,617 --> 00:23:32,828 I go to the… the two weeks reserve. 69 00:23:33,829 --> 00:23:37,332 And I'm there for about a week and a half. 70 00:23:39,167 --> 00:23:42,629 I'm 600 miles away from anybody I know. 71 00:23:43,922 --> 00:23:46,383 I'm wound up like an eight-day clock. 72 00:23:49,136 --> 00:23:51,638 So after about a week and a half, I said, "Fuck it." 73 00:23:51,721 --> 00:23:53,140 "I gotta get off this ship." 74 00:23:54,724 --> 00:23:56,852 And I went out, and I wandered around. 75 00:24:00,647 --> 00:24:02,649 And I walked into a little bar. 76 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:07,154 And I sat down, and I ordered a double bourbon and Coke. 77 00:24:08,613 --> 00:24:10,115 Well, I got… 78 00:24:11,074 --> 00:24:14,911 stupid drunk. I mean, just crazy, stupid drunk. 79 00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:18,206 It's dark. 80 00:24:19,624 --> 00:24:21,334 Didn't know where I was. 81 00:24:24,129 --> 00:24:25,755 And I'm walking down the street. 82 00:24:26,256 --> 00:24:28,633 And I walk past this house. 83 00:24:30,427 --> 00:24:31,928 All the lights are out. 84 00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:34,139 There's no car in the drive. 85 00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:39,603 And I said, "I wonder if they got some loose money laying around." 86 00:24:40,353 --> 00:24:43,565 So I went around the back of the house. 87 00:24:44,941 --> 00:24:46,526 And I went up to a window. 88 00:24:47,277 --> 00:24:52,032 And the window had a hook and latch on it to lock it. 89 00:24:53,825 --> 00:24:55,785 So I got out a pocket knife. 90 00:24:56,786 --> 00:24:58,121 Opened up the window. 91 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,249 I almost fell in the house. I was drunk. 92 00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:03,919 I mean, I was just drunk. 93 00:25:07,631 --> 00:25:10,509 I went into the house, and it's the living room. 94 00:25:11,343 --> 00:25:13,720 I'm looking for money. All right? 95 00:25:15,055 --> 00:25:16,431 I went in the kitchen. 96 00:25:17,933 --> 00:25:19,768 And I looked in the cookie jar. 97 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:21,520 Nothing there. 98 00:25:22,562 --> 00:25:23,939 There was another door. 99 00:25:27,108 --> 00:25:28,735 But when I opened the door, 100 00:25:29,444 --> 00:25:30,278 she… 101 00:25:30,987 --> 00:25:32,656 sat up and started to scream 102 00:25:32,739 --> 00:25:35,158 and I covered her mouth with my left hand. 103 00:25:35,659 --> 00:25:37,619 I went to push her back down with my right. 104 00:25:37,702 --> 00:25:40,497 I still had that little pen knife in my hand. 105 00:25:41,831 --> 00:25:43,708 And when I went to push her back down, 106 00:25:43,792 --> 00:25:46,336 she grabbed that hand. 107 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,547 And it went in right there. 108 00:26:03,853 --> 00:26:05,814 When I started to calm down, 109 00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:10,610 she was still lying on the bed, and she was moving. 110 00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:13,572 And I said, "Lady, I'm leaving." 111 00:26:15,365 --> 00:26:17,284 And I walked out the front door. 112 00:26:38,054 --> 00:26:39,931 Let me ask you this, Dennis. 113 00:26:40,932 --> 00:26:44,477 Would you be able to put into words and describe 114 00:26:45,854 --> 00:26:48,106 what you felt at that moment? 115 00:26:49,107 --> 00:26:50,442 This will… 116 00:26:52,152 --> 00:26:54,654 humanize your feelings. 117 00:26:56,906 --> 00:26:58,241 It was the demon. 118 00:27:04,623 --> 00:27:06,374 Tell me about that demon. 119 00:27:21,848 --> 00:27:23,058 Here's Dennis. 120 00:27:25,352 --> 00:27:29,481 And the demon used to be right out here in front. 121 00:27:37,697 --> 00:27:40,408 And had a little pointy beard 122 00:27:40,992 --> 00:27:43,119 and horns, 123 00:27:43,203 --> 00:27:45,080 and claws. 124 00:27:47,290 --> 00:27:49,167 The demon's in here. 125 00:27:52,212 --> 00:27:54,089 And it still tries to get out. 126 00:27:58,259 --> 00:27:59,511 But I won't let it. 127 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,442 Do you remember having sex with her? 128 00:28:14,526 --> 00:28:15,527 No. 129 00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:18,822 -That's the thing, Dennis. We have to-- -I don't see it. I… 130 00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:21,491 I'm looking. All right? I'm looking. 131 00:28:21,574 --> 00:28:23,993 Or are you denying that you had sex with her? 132 00:28:24,077 --> 00:28:27,706 No, I'm not denying, I'm just looking. And… 133 00:28:29,124 --> 00:28:32,419 -You can see her sat up in the bed. -I can see her stomach. 134 00:28:32,502 --> 00:28:33,336 Okay. 135 00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:35,004 When I put the knife-- 136 00:28:35,088 --> 00:28:37,340 So she obviously didn't have any clothes on. 137 00:28:37,424 --> 00:28:39,050 No, she had clothes on. 138 00:28:40,051 --> 00:28:43,471 Well, she must not have had clothes on here if you can see her stomach. 139 00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:46,349 You beat the hell out of that girl. 140 00:28:47,517 --> 00:28:48,351 No! 141 00:28:48,435 --> 00:28:50,228 You beat the hell out of that girl. 142 00:28:51,146 --> 00:28:53,189 And you stabbed the hell out of that girl. 143 00:28:53,273 --> 00:28:54,399 I did not. 144 00:28:54,482 --> 00:28:56,943 I only stabbed her one time. 145 00:28:57,026 --> 00:28:58,361 -One-- -How do you know? 146 00:28:58,445 --> 00:29:00,321 -One time! -If you were so… 147 00:29:01,030 --> 00:29:03,575 drunk, how do you know? 148 00:29:03,658 --> 00:29:05,952 Because I can still see that in my mind. 149 00:29:06,035 --> 00:29:08,955 -But you can't see anything else-- -No, I can't. 150 00:29:09,456 --> 00:29:10,582 So you don't know. 151 00:29:49,204 --> 00:29:50,538 I didn't do that. 152 00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:56,377 Well, you think about it, and I'm gonna get you back downtown, okay? 153 00:29:56,878 --> 00:29:58,004 I didn't do that. 154 00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:02,175 Give me a couple minutes, Dennis. 155 00:30:04,469 --> 00:30:05,386 I didn't… 156 00:30:06,262 --> 00:30:07,263 I didn't do that. 157 00:30:11,726 --> 00:30:13,019 I didn't do that. 158 00:30:18,983 --> 00:30:20,109 I've done it again. 159 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,613 I've done it again. 160 00:30:41,381 --> 00:30:43,049 I didn't do that. 161 00:30:47,011 --> 00:30:48,179 You ready to go back? 162 00:30:48,263 --> 00:30:49,347 -Yeah. -All right. 163 00:30:51,724 --> 00:30:52,600 You okay? 164 00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:55,395 No. 165 00:31:00,149 --> 00:31:02,277 [Det. Ernstes] Now that you know that 166 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,446 Denny committed a murder 167 00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:10,326 in Virginia, do you have any concerns about Aundria? 168 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:14,163 [Brenda] I don't know what to believe right now! I really don't. 169 00:31:14,247 --> 00:31:18,251 Do you believe us that we tell you that he did this? 170 00:31:18,334 --> 00:31:21,254 Or do you still hope in your heart that he didn't? 171 00:31:22,297 --> 00:31:24,132 There's always that hope. 172 00:31:24,215 --> 00:31:27,093 There's always that hope that Aundria's not dead. 173 00:31:27,176 --> 00:31:28,219 I know. 174 00:32:08,343 --> 00:32:10,720 [Dennis] Hey, did you get something today? 175 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:18,895 [Brenda] You shouldn't have. 176 00:32:21,481 --> 00:32:23,024 You made me cry. 177 00:32:23,107 --> 00:32:25,360 Made me cry when I ordered it. 178 00:32:33,993 --> 00:32:37,622 We should have done something when you got out the first time. 179 00:32:38,247 --> 00:32:40,875 We should've gone to counseling. 180 00:32:40,959 --> 00:32:43,711 We should've gotten to the bottom of everything. 181 00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:53,763 [Brenda] I love you. 182 00:32:53,846 --> 00:32:55,139 [Dennis] I love you too. 183 00:32:55,223 --> 00:32:57,308 Even though I damn you at times. 184 00:32:58,309 --> 00:33:02,063 And I don't blame you a bit, sweetie. I should be home. I'm not. 185 00:33:16,035 --> 00:33:17,078 [Dennis] I love you. 186 00:33:18,037 --> 00:33:21,332 [Brenda] Forty years ago, you should've thought of that. 187 00:33:21,416 --> 00:33:23,876 Forty years ago, I was going nuts though. 188 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,964 Forty years ago, I wish to hell you never would have went to Virginia. 189 00:33:28,047 --> 00:33:29,382 Yeah, me too. 190 00:34:37,533 --> 00:34:41,913 [Brenda] Virginia's gonna be impossible for an actual visit. 191 00:34:42,747 --> 00:34:43,623 [Dennis] I know. 192 00:34:43,706 --> 00:34:47,919 Sue asked me if I was gonna pack up and go live in Virginia for a while. 193 00:34:48,836 --> 00:34:51,631 I said, "No, I can't do that." 194 00:35:19,742 --> 00:35:21,369 [Det. Haverdink] Here's what 195 00:35:21,452 --> 00:35:25,164 I could do and I've already got permission to do. 196 00:35:26,290 --> 00:35:30,086 Is if that, if I know where Aundria is, 197 00:35:30,169 --> 00:35:32,171 and I can find Aundria, 198 00:35:32,255 --> 00:35:35,174 and I can have closure for Brenda, 199 00:35:35,258 --> 00:35:36,509 and for you, 200 00:35:38,136 --> 00:35:40,805 I can keep you here in Michigan. 201 00:35:41,305 --> 00:35:45,685 I can keep you closer to Brenda and Vanessa. 202 00:35:45,768 --> 00:35:48,146 There's nothing I can do about that though. 203 00:35:57,321 --> 00:35:59,198 Well, it'd be nice to keep you in state, 204 00:35:59,282 --> 00:36:02,243 but you're not gonna admit to something you didn't do. 205 00:36:03,786 --> 00:36:06,080 I keep telling 'em. I keep telling 'em. 206 00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:09,542 And he said, "Well, you know… there's been accidents." 207 00:36:09,625 --> 00:36:11,210 [Vanessa Bowman] No! 208 00:36:11,294 --> 00:36:13,880 I said, I told him yesterday, I said, 209 00:36:13,963 --> 00:36:17,842 "You don't kill family. You don't." 210 00:36:17,925 --> 00:36:21,179 I said, "You get mad at 'em. You scream at 'em." 211 00:36:21,262 --> 00:36:25,057 "Sometimes you fight with 'em." I said, "But you don't kill 'em." 212 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,437 And they said, "Well, you don't kill anybody." 213 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:30,605 Jesus. 214 00:36:30,688 --> 00:36:34,525 They have no idea what real family is, I think. 215 00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:39,030 Oh! They've completely dug huge holes all through Shadow's area. 216 00:36:41,157 --> 00:36:44,118 Yeah… so all right. 217 00:36:44,202 --> 00:36:46,204 So they dug up the backyard? 218 00:36:46,287 --> 00:36:47,955 All throughout the backyard. 219 00:36:48,456 --> 00:36:50,082 Oh, geez… 220 00:36:50,166 --> 00:36:53,294 I don't know what they're looking for. I really don't. 221 00:37:47,348 --> 00:37:50,476 [Dennis] I do not know where my daughter is. 222 00:37:51,102 --> 00:37:53,646 I keep telling you this, and you keep coming back to, 223 00:37:53,729 --> 00:37:56,565 "Well, you know, maybe there was an accident, 224 00:37:56,649 --> 00:38:00,778 or maybe you lost your temper or…" 225 00:38:00,861 --> 00:38:04,323 You don't lose your temper with your kid to kill 'em! 226 00:38:04,407 --> 00:38:05,241 You don't! 227 00:38:46,991 --> 00:38:47,992 [Dennis] Hi, baby. 228 00:38:52,455 --> 00:38:55,166 This is special. They don't do this. 229 00:38:55,249 --> 00:38:57,209 And the only reason they did… 230 00:39:00,296 --> 00:39:01,964 Honey, 231 00:39:02,048 --> 00:39:07,219 I've done some stuff that I'm really ashamed of. 232 00:39:07,303 --> 00:39:08,387 Honest to God. 233 00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:12,725 Aundria's dead. 234 00:39:14,435 --> 00:39:16,062 She's been dead from the start. 235 00:39:23,402 --> 00:39:26,489 I came home that day with the baby, and the baby was sleeping. 236 00:39:29,950 --> 00:39:33,204 And I took the baby in the living room and laid her on the couch. 237 00:39:33,704 --> 00:39:35,998 And I went up to the top of the stairs. 238 00:39:39,752 --> 00:39:42,046 Aundria was coming out of our bedroom. 239 00:39:43,422 --> 00:39:46,717 And I said, "What are you doing?" And she said she was leaving. 240 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,221 We got into an argument. 241 00:39:51,847 --> 00:39:55,559 And I said, "No, you're not leaving. You're not going anywhere." 242 00:39:55,643 --> 00:39:58,020 And she said, "Well, I'll just… 243 00:39:59,146 --> 00:40:01,941 tell the counselors again that you molested me." 244 00:40:03,234 --> 00:40:06,195 And I said, "No, you won't." And I hit her. 245 00:40:16,122 --> 00:40:19,250 She fell backwards down the stairwell. 246 00:40:23,254 --> 00:40:25,714 [Brenda] No, no. 247 00:40:26,298 --> 00:40:28,843 Don't admit to something you didn't do. 248 00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:40,187 I ran down the stairs. 249 00:40:44,108 --> 00:40:47,153 And I checked, and she didn't have a pulse. 250 00:40:48,779 --> 00:40:50,072 And she wasn't breathing. 251 00:40:54,034 --> 00:40:55,411 And she had a big… 252 00:40:56,537 --> 00:40:59,582 It just didn't feel right, her neck. Her neck was just bad. 253 00:41:01,041 --> 00:41:02,835 And her head rolled over, 254 00:41:03,502 --> 00:41:07,715 and she just stared, like doll eyes going into nowhere. 255 00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:13,762 She was gone. 256 00:41:23,314 --> 00:41:24,857 I couldn't lose you. 257 00:41:26,358 --> 00:41:29,403 And Vanessa. She was only 14 months old. 258 00:41:31,113 --> 00:41:33,532 And I didn't know what to do. 259 00:41:34,158 --> 00:41:37,828 'Cause I knew if I called and told them anything… 260 00:41:39,747 --> 00:41:41,457 that they'd put me back in prison. 261 00:41:46,712 --> 00:41:48,339 I wrapped her in a blanket. 262 00:41:49,215 --> 00:41:50,716 And I took her out, 263 00:41:50,799 --> 00:41:52,551 and hid her body in the barn. 264 00:41:53,594 --> 00:41:56,597 And I called the police and said she was missing. 265 00:41:58,849 --> 00:42:01,018 She laid out there for a couple of days. 266 00:42:02,895 --> 00:42:04,980 And I found a cardboard barrel. 267 00:42:07,233 --> 00:42:09,610 And I tried to stick her body in the barrel. 268 00:42:10,653 --> 00:42:11,779 It wouldn't fit. 269 00:42:14,865 --> 00:42:18,327 Honey, in order to make it fit, I had to cut her legs off. 270 00:42:21,622 --> 00:42:24,166 And then, maybe a day or two, 271 00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:27,211 when the neighbors set their garbage cans out, 272 00:42:27,878 --> 00:42:30,714 I rolled the barrel down and set it next to them. 273 00:42:31,257 --> 00:42:33,259 And the next morning she was gone. 274 00:42:38,305 --> 00:42:39,932 Thirty-somethin' years. 275 00:42:40,015 --> 00:42:40,849 Yes. 276 00:42:41,350 --> 00:42:42,351 Thirty-one years. 277 00:42:46,188 --> 00:42:48,482 As long as I didn't tell you, 278 00:42:50,025 --> 00:42:51,235 you had hope. 279 00:42:52,695 --> 00:42:54,947 And I'm sorry for deceiving you. 280 00:42:59,702 --> 00:43:01,996 And I know what your fear was. 281 00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:08,544 But it was our daughter. You should've got her help. 282 00:43:18,637 --> 00:43:22,266 I've defended you so much against Cathy. 283 00:43:22,349 --> 00:43:23,183 I know. 284 00:44:16,695 --> 00:44:18,572 All this time searching for her, 285 00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:21,367 putting up flyers, you knew that was… 286 00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:23,494 [Dennis] I knew that was BS. 287 00:44:24,244 --> 00:44:25,579 And you said the money… 288 00:44:25,663 --> 00:44:26,538 Was missing. 289 00:44:28,374 --> 00:44:31,960 I burned the bag and her coat that was laying there. 290 00:44:32,961 --> 00:44:36,924 And I believe what happened was I never checked in the bag. 291 00:44:37,007 --> 00:44:39,343 The money might've been there. I might've burned it. 292 00:44:39,426 --> 00:44:40,969 I don't know. But it was gone. 293 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,806 When did you wind up burning the bag? 294 00:44:45,391 --> 00:44:48,227 After I picked her up and carried her outside. 295 00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:51,105 -Before you called the police? -Yes. 296 00:44:51,855 --> 00:44:55,234 It was probably still burning in the barrel when he got there. 297 00:45:11,125 --> 00:45:15,003 And then when somebody said they saw her in Holland, 298 00:45:15,087 --> 00:45:16,755 I didn't tell them that. 299 00:45:16,839 --> 00:45:20,175 And somebody else said, "Oh we saw her down in Indiana." 300 00:45:20,259 --> 00:45:21,468 "She was at a bar." 301 00:45:24,179 --> 00:45:26,515 [Det. Haverdink] What did you think of that? 302 00:45:26,598 --> 00:45:27,558 Good. 303 00:45:29,226 --> 00:45:31,061 'Cause it took the heat off me. 304 00:45:50,956 --> 00:45:53,751 Just because she broke her neck didn't, 305 00:45:53,834 --> 00:45:56,628 that doesn't mean I didn't love her. All right? 306 00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:14,354 [Brenda] No one knows the truth but you. 307 00:46:14,980 --> 00:46:16,440 -[Dennis] Mhm. -And God. 308 00:46:16,523 --> 00:46:17,483 And God. 309 00:46:29,411 --> 00:46:31,955 I got a big song and dance from Sue. 310 00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:37,127 "We just can't wrap our minds around how hurt and--" 311 00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:38,212 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 312 00:46:38,295 --> 00:46:41,757 She worded it like you chopped Aundria up when she was alive. 313 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,927 -Yeah, I'm sure she did. -That's the way she worded it. 314 00:46:45,010 --> 00:46:47,846 And I started writing back a couple of times, 315 00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:50,682 "You don't know half the truth of what you think you know." 316 00:47:36,103 --> 00:47:38,939 [Brenda] I can only tell you what I was told that day 317 00:47:39,022 --> 00:47:41,441 and have believed in for all these years. 318 00:47:41,984 --> 00:47:45,028 I got my Philippians 4:13 in one corner. 319 00:47:46,113 --> 00:47:48,782 And I got Isaiah 41:10 at the bottom. 320 00:47:48,866 --> 00:47:50,117 Yep. 321 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,579 You're not gonna take my love away from me or anything or my God. 322 00:47:53,662 --> 00:47:55,581 And this is the way I am. 323 00:47:56,081 --> 00:47:58,333 If you don't like it, oh well! 324 00:48:03,213 --> 00:48:07,634 The best lie is one that's mostly true, all right? 325 00:50:56,178 --> 00:50:59,431 [Det. Workman] You know that we've listened to calls and letters. 326 00:50:59,514 --> 00:51:00,390 Yep, and letters. 327 00:51:00,474 --> 00:51:02,309 How many stories are we up to? 328 00:51:02,809 --> 00:51:04,311 Probably three or four. 329 00:51:04,394 --> 00:51:07,522 Yeah, so which one's true? Which one's the truth? 330 00:51:07,606 --> 00:51:09,024 That's the one you gotta figure out. 331 00:51:09,107 --> 00:51:11,234 You're the one person that knows where she's at. 332 00:51:11,318 --> 00:51:12,194 That's right. 333 00:51:12,277 --> 00:51:16,114 And I'm the one person that's gonna keep that for the rest of my life. 334 00:51:46,770 --> 00:51:50,899 [Det. Fuller] We're aware that you told your wife another story. 335 00:51:50,982 --> 00:51:54,569 The problem that's created now, Dennis, 336 00:51:54,653 --> 00:51:58,698 because of that is it's kind of wrapped her up into this, 337 00:51:58,782 --> 00:52:00,867 and she doesn't need to be. Okay? 338 00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:03,578 That's a problem for Brenda. 339 00:52:04,621 --> 00:52:07,290 And I know you don't wanna have a problem for your wife. 340 00:52:07,874 --> 00:52:10,877 You say you care about Brenda, but look who you're protecting. 341 00:52:10,961 --> 00:52:14,005 I'm not gonna tell you where my daughter's buried. 342 00:52:46,371 --> 00:52:49,541 [Brenda] You may not want to listen to what I have to say, but-- 343 00:52:49,624 --> 00:52:50,959 [Dennis] Go ahead. Say it. 344 00:52:52,127 --> 00:52:56,840 The prosecutor here still will not charge without her body. 345 00:52:58,592 --> 00:52:59,551 All right. 346 00:53:00,260 --> 00:53:04,806 If it came to the time that you decide to tell me what I need to know, 347 00:53:05,432 --> 00:53:09,060 you would stay in Michigan for life, 348 00:53:10,228 --> 00:53:12,731 which would enable us visits. 349 00:53:13,523 --> 00:53:15,317 That's not guaranteed, 350 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,987 but I have to hang on to any thread I can have. 351 00:53:41,134 --> 00:53:43,511 [Brenda] I can't pull myself together. 352 00:53:45,472 --> 00:53:47,015 I have dreams of it. 353 00:53:47,682 --> 00:53:48,725 Dreams of what? 354 00:53:48,808 --> 00:53:49,935 Aundria! 355 00:53:50,018 --> 00:53:52,020 You! Everything! 356 00:53:56,733 --> 00:53:59,945 [Brenda] I still want closure with knowing where she is. 357 00:54:00,028 --> 00:54:03,949 I want our baby girl home with me in a very pretty urn. 358 00:54:04,532 --> 00:54:08,536 Then I can finally realize that she's home where she belongs 359 00:54:08,620 --> 00:54:11,122 after all the years she's been gone. 360 00:54:20,966 --> 00:54:22,592 I buried her in a real grave-- 361 00:54:22,676 --> 00:54:25,345 So I live like this the rest of my life? 362 00:54:25,428 --> 00:54:28,765 You don't have to live like nothing the rest of your life. 363 00:54:30,016 --> 00:54:31,977 If we can't get past this… 364 00:54:32,644 --> 00:54:36,064 I can't! I can't get it totally past! 365 00:54:36,147 --> 00:54:38,525 I tried to explain that to you! 366 00:54:42,153 --> 00:54:45,031 The only help we'll get from now on is from God. 367 00:55:04,050 --> 00:55:07,470 [Brenda] I don't care anymore, Denny, one way or another, 368 00:55:07,554 --> 00:55:10,015 whatever happened, 369 00:55:10,098 --> 00:55:12,350 I will still love you no matter what. 370 00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:21,109 There's a possibility we could have somewhat of a life here in Michigan. 371 00:55:23,820 --> 00:55:26,489 I wanna hear you say you believe there's hope. 372 00:55:27,365 --> 00:55:28,450 It's all we got. 373 00:55:29,909 --> 00:55:31,411 [Dennis] I believe you, honey. 374 00:55:58,521 --> 00:56:02,567 [Dennis] I will tell you exactly where Aundria is. 375 00:56:03,651 --> 00:56:04,986 She's very close. 376 00:56:06,654 --> 00:56:07,739 [Brenda] I hope so. 377 00:56:08,281 --> 00:56:09,282 Oh, she is. 378 00:56:14,204 --> 00:56:15,330 Brenda… 379 00:56:15,413 --> 00:56:17,707 Aundria is buried in our backyard. 380 00:56:19,167 --> 00:56:23,630 We didn't live here! We weren't even-- We didn't even know this place. 381 00:56:23,713 --> 00:56:24,881 Brenda, she's there. 382 00:56:34,724 --> 00:56:38,728 Where we were at the old house, I had the barrel buried. 383 00:56:40,939 --> 00:56:45,360 When we found out we were moving, I took the barrel over to our house. 384 00:56:46,319 --> 00:56:50,782 I dug the hole, and I put the barrel in it, all right? 385 00:56:51,282 --> 00:56:53,243 Then, I covered it all up. 386 00:56:57,038 --> 00:56:58,748 She's been right there 387 00:56:58,832 --> 00:57:00,250 the whole time. 388 00:57:02,335 --> 00:57:03,503 Now you know. 389 00:58:47,023 --> 00:58:50,568 They weren't saying exactly that it was Aundria. 390 00:58:50,652 --> 00:58:52,737 They just said, "We found remains." 391 00:58:54,572 --> 00:58:57,951 And after I stood over for a few minutes, 392 00:58:59,661 --> 00:59:03,373 I turned and Todd walked me back to the house. 393 00:59:03,456 --> 00:59:07,001 And all I could say to him is, "He didn't lie to me this time." 394 00:59:07,085 --> 00:59:08,836 "He didn't lie, Todd." 395 01:00:03,016 --> 01:00:07,854 [Brenda] How was the letter that you wrote so convincing about the cemetery and-- 396 01:00:07,937 --> 01:00:11,733 [Dennis] That was more bullshit for them, and I thought it'd make you feel better. 397 01:00:11,816 --> 01:00:13,526 But you haven't felt better. 398 01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:17,155 You've only been bitching about how you wanted her right there with ya. 399 01:00:17,238 --> 01:00:18,948 In a can, sittin' on a shelf. 400 01:00:19,616 --> 01:00:22,493 I thought maybe if you thought she was buried decently, 401 01:00:22,577 --> 01:00:24,579 properly, with respect, 402 01:00:24,662 --> 01:00:28,124 then maybe you'd say, "Okay, that was enough." 403 01:00:28,207 --> 01:00:29,459 But no. 404 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,754 I don't want you mad! 405 01:00:32,837 --> 01:00:35,798 At least you'll have her in a tin jar on a shelf. 406 01:00:39,010 --> 01:00:40,553 So now here I am. 407 01:00:40,637 --> 01:00:44,057 Now you know I'm a rotten, stinkin' son of a bitch. 408 01:00:46,225 --> 01:00:49,187 Nothing's changed. I still love you. 409 01:00:51,397 --> 01:00:53,691 Denny! Did you hear me? 410 01:00:53,775 --> 01:00:55,109 Yes, I heard you. 411 01:00:56,444 --> 01:00:58,029 It's gonna be over, baby. 412 01:00:58,613 --> 01:00:59,447 Bye-bye. 413 01:02:33,833 --> 01:02:37,378 Brenda, there are some other things that Denny has admitted to us 414 01:02:37,462 --> 01:02:39,088 that he'd done in the past. 415 01:02:40,214 --> 01:02:41,924 Would you like to hear about those? 416 01:02:42,425 --> 01:02:45,887 [Brenda] Evidently, he didn't want me to hear about 'em otherwise. 417 01:02:46,679 --> 01:02:49,182 I'm gonna tell you 'cause I think you deserve to know. 418 01:02:49,807 --> 01:02:52,769 He said that when he was stationed out in San Diego 419 01:02:52,852 --> 01:02:55,229 before you guys were married, 420 01:02:55,313 --> 01:02:57,899 that he sexually assaulted a woman. 421 01:03:01,068 --> 01:03:05,031 And then he said that very shortly after you two were married 422 01:03:05,823 --> 01:03:09,202 that he had sexually assaulted two women out in San Diego. 423 01:03:10,787 --> 01:03:13,956 And then, in the early '80s, 424 01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,794 that he had sexually assaulted a woman up in a trailer park. 425 01:03:21,422 --> 01:03:23,007 I don't know that man. 426 01:03:23,591 --> 01:03:25,176 I don't know that man. 427 01:03:27,553 --> 01:03:29,680 When I sat there and told them that morning 428 01:03:29,764 --> 01:03:33,226 that the man they were talking about, I had no idea who he was, 429 01:03:33,309 --> 01:03:36,854 I didn't realize I'd actually be saying how true that was. 430 01:03:39,649 --> 01:03:40,566 I'm sorry. 431 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,114 [Det. Haverdink] We had briefly talked before about the Metta girl, 432 01:03:47,615 --> 01:03:51,077 that was abducted from the Windmill gas station 433 01:03:52,453 --> 01:03:54,831 and was brought down to Silver Creek Campground. 434 01:03:54,914 --> 01:03:57,166 No, I don't know anything about that. 435 01:04:15,768 --> 01:04:20,356 [Det. Fuller] So that's all the dark stuff in your closet? 436 01:04:20,439 --> 01:04:22,650 That's all the dark stuff in my closet. 437 01:09:16,235 --> 01:09:17,778 [Cathy] Todd, thank you for everything. 438 01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:19,655 It was a team effort. 439 01:09:20,156 --> 01:09:21,407 Can we have a word with you? 440 01:09:21,490 --> 01:09:22,449 Yes. 441 01:09:29,957 --> 01:09:31,375 [Det. Haverdink] Brenda… 442 01:09:31,458 --> 01:09:32,459 has the remains. 443 01:09:32,543 --> 01:09:34,545 She had the remains cremated. 444 01:09:35,754 --> 01:09:39,049 And she wants to give you half of Aundria's body. 445 01:09:41,302 --> 01:09:44,763 [Cathy] I can't deal with this. 446 01:09:44,847 --> 01:09:47,349 I can't deal with this right now. 447 01:09:49,894 --> 01:09:52,980 What'd she give me, the top half or the bottom half? 448 01:09:54,064 --> 01:09:55,441 How dare her! 449 01:09:57,735 --> 01:09:59,236 We have those here today 450 01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:00,946 to give to you, 451 01:10:01,030 --> 01:10:02,948 if you want to accept them. 452 01:10:05,117 --> 01:10:07,203 Of course I do. 453 01:10:10,039 --> 01:10:12,208 My little girl is right here, you guys. 454 01:10:12,291 --> 01:10:13,876 Right here. 455 01:10:13,959 --> 01:10:16,253 She knows that monster is gone. 456 01:10:23,302 --> 01:10:25,804 [Cathy] Give you half a guess what this is. 457 01:10:25,888 --> 01:10:26,722 [Metta] No. 458 01:10:28,849 --> 01:10:30,351 -Really? -Half of her. 459 01:11:19,525 --> 01:11:21,235 [Brenda] How's she gonna fight it? 460 01:11:21,735 --> 01:11:24,613 Any judge in the world would turn around and say, 461 01:11:24,697 --> 01:11:27,741 "You're lucky you're getting what you're getting, 462 01:11:27,825 --> 01:11:29,618 'cause she's sharing with you." 463 01:11:29,702 --> 01:11:32,162 [Dennis] Yeah, well, remember, she threw her away.