We were made to believe that heroes had light skin and rosy cheeks.
So whenever I imagined a hero, I thought of him.
Face red like a tomato,
and big beautiful blue eyes,
and that fancy way of riding a horse in such style.
Me and my friends, we all used to drool over him.
We watched his films.
"Rakesh ji." We used to… We were all smitten by his looks.
Actually, we used to go and see Khel Khel Mein for Rakesh sir.
For us, he was the item in that.
He was a little strong-looking.
I thought he was a very intelligent man
who was a tad bit uncomfortable doing films that were made in those times.
But he came into his being.
And his important contribution
to Hindi cinema came when I think he decided
that enough is enough, I need to be a director.
There was this film he made with Salman and Shah Rukh,
The film was called Karan Johar…
Karan Johar…?
This will make a great blooper for your show.
Karan Arjun.
Karan Arjun was a Western kind of a film also.
It was loaded with emotions,
dialogues that made the audience react,
and sequences that made them applaud.
Rakesh ji has that quality.
"Emotionally, this film of mine will entangle you.
But story-wise, it will not remind you of the last few films that I did."
That mainstream experience you look for when you go to the theater,
whether it should be a little romance,
a little comedy, a little song and dance.
And despite all that, as they say, at its core, has a simple story.
He used to never overcomplicated his stories.
There is something fantastical
that excites my dad,
that's a little on the edges of reality.
It's like, this is possible. Is it really possible?
So, he likes to live on that edge.
And any filmmaker who has a great comic sense
when he is directing, when he is writing,
the sense of humor, the sense of wonderment,
which is very very important.
To laugh, have fun,
to play.
You know, relax.
Anytime we were doing a scene, he's very specific.
He won't let us over-perform nor under-perform.
So he's one director who can get the best performances
out of all the actors.
And you knew, the minute he said, "Cut it!"
You knew that wasn't okay.
I was very jealous of Rakesh Roshan for one reason.
He was extremely hardworking.
And that is why he made many brilliant films.
The way he used the camera, his technique,
it was like he was innovating with every film.
He knows exactly what he wants,
and he doesn't care how we get there.
You know, if I want snow on top of the mountain at this particular time,
somehow, we will get snow
on top of this mountain at that particular time.
He knows how to make things happen.
He loves doing difficult things.
It's like that endorphin release, you know.
No matter how difficult it is…
He's a very well-planned commercial filmmaker
who has never flopped.
To stay in touch with the audience's pulse
which is ever-changing.
Generations change.
And Rakesh ji is one of those people
who, even today,
give young filmmakers like me
a run for their money.
Since childhood, I was mischievous.
I was never interested in studies.
I was so passionate about movies
that I wouldn't miss a single film when I was in school.
So, from that time, fascination for acting began.
But my father and my mother wanted me to study.
Very loving with me.
With Guddu, they were very strict.
Guddu used to score very less in exams.
Almost in all subjects.
They were always upset with Guddu.
Lots of shouting. Lots of beating.
So I think my father and my mother decided
that I wasn't going to straighten out at home.
He needs to be sent to boarding school.
So my dad suggested to him,
"Why don't you send him to Satara Sainik School
where my son is also studying?
It'll make him into a man."
The very first day itself I told my friends,
"Let's go watch a movie."
We watched the film with our heads covered in a blanket.
You know, so nobody recognizes us as school kids.
So, somebody probably informed the principal.
So, suddenly the lights came on.
And on the movie screen, a plaque appeared
that, "All the Sainik School boys, please step out."
That night, I remember, at 11,
we were made to do the Pithu parade on the parade ground.
The principal called my father and said,
"Your son isn't studying.
We need to meet you, please come over to the school."
My father told the principal, "But sir, in Bombay, he used to stand 51st or 52nd.
Here he stands 10th or 11th in the class. And you're saying he's not studying?"
I said, "See, Papa."
The principal said to him, "Mr. Roshan,
the thing is that there are only 10 students in the class."
That age, you know, you're bound to have girlfriends.
And, especially him, you know, he used to attract a lot of girls.
And we used to go dancing, we used to go to jam sessions.
We always were short of funds.
So finances, at that time were
for the istri wala, the laundry wala, so…
That girlfriend business was entirely separate.
I wouldn’t get involved in that matter
because he would never allow me.
And if I had a girlfriend, then he was not allowed in those matters.
Because he was very handsome and also he was very sly.
So, I used to tell all my friends, "You better stay away from him."
In 1967, when my father passed away,
all the responsibilities fell on me.
And I started working as an assistant director.
So, as an assistant, I used to go and meet a lot of producers,
and outside, the office boy would ask me, "Who are you?"
I'd say, "Tell them, I'm Rakesh and I'm Roshan ji's son."
So immediately they'd call me in.
And you may not believe this
but they'd get up from their chairs and they would shake my hand.
This respect was the legacy our father left behind for us.
Then, in 1968,
I joined producer-director Mohan Kumar.
At the time, he was making Anjaana.
But I wasn't just working as an assistant director.
If a party needed to be arranged,
I was the one who would arrange it.
Many major producers would come.
Famous actors would be there.
And they'd all look at me and say,
"Look at Roshan's son. But look how hard he's working."
Back then at these parties,
Om ji was often there
and he was a very big producer.
Pinkie would also come to these parties.
One day, as we were returning from a party,
Mummy said to me, "Pinkie is a very nice girl.
If you ever bring home a wife, she should be like Pinkie."
I said, "Mumma, what kind of talk is that?"
Because I was an assistant, I barely had any work,
I was just making 200 rupees a month.
Then one day,
actor Rajendra Kumar called me to his place.
Over there was B. Nagi Reddy, a very big producer.
He chatted with me for a little while
and then handed me a check of 5,000 rupees.
A signing amount.
And so in 1970, my acting career finally began.
We must have shot for barely 3-4 days
when Mr. J. Om Prakash gave me a call,
saying, "I'd like to meet you."
I said, "Mumma, Om ji is coming over to sign me up."
I was busy getting dressed, trying to look my best for him.
He said, "I've been watching you.
You're extremely hardworking.
And would you accept my proposal and marry my daughter?"
I was completely taken aback.
I had not the least idea how to respond.
So I got up and went into the other room.
I asked Mummy, "What did you say to him?"
She said, "I said yes."
I said, "You said yes?
I'm not earning right now.
I'm nobody as yet."
One day I got back home from college,
my mom came, and she said,
"Pinkie, we have decided to get you engaged."
Those times were such and we were raised in such a way,
that I couldn't even muster up the courage to ask, "To whom? Who is he?"
So, when I got to know that it was him,
I was damn happy.
At least he was really good-looking.
So I was very, very happy.
About one week later, Guddu came to my college.
So, we went to the canteen, ordered a Coca-Cola.
And he said, "I have only one film in hand.
What if I don't make it?"
So I just told him, I said,
"Not a problem.
What will be, will be."
Our courtship was barely five or six months.
And out of those five-six months, he was shooting in Kullu Manali.
So we had hardly met with each other.
There was no interaction, except for letters and lightning calls.
It was a very new world for me.
From a wife, you become a mother overnight.
From a husband, his role changed to being a father.
So, all our attention was on the kids
and how we were going to bring them up, and…
There was no time for any romance or…
We never fell in love, love really,
because we never knew each other.
Happy birthday to you!
My responsibilities had increased a lot.
Pinkie had come from such a big house,
while we were living in a two-bedroom flat.
Sometimes it used to be like,
"How am I going to pay for the monthly bills?"
So I'd approach a friend
and ask him for a loan
saying, "Could you give me 5,000 rupees?
I don't have enough money to pay my bills."
I was ready to put in the hard work,
but somehow or the other,
I wasn’t getting enough success.
So every morning I had just one task.
I'd call five producers and five directors every day.
"Uncle, please give me some work, Uncle. Please give me some work."
I'd make plans for the kids to take them out during school holidays.
We'd make all the preparations and be ready to leave,
when suddenly I'd land a small role in some film.
And I'd think, "I'll get 40-50,000 rupees for this."
And I wouldn't go with the kids on holiday.
So Pinkie would end up taking them.
I do see the journey, the journey that my father took.
It was a very, very difficult one.
And I remember reading this interview, where he was quoted,
and I was reading the quote, and it said,
"I will not die until I prove myself."
And I remember sitting down and just praying to God and saying,
"God, please make my father successful."
You know, it stuck with me.
My father's
desire and that need
for validation and for…
To be seen.
He was at war.
I didn't want to disappear.
The way I would think was, "No, I need to be in the people's eyes."
So what I did was,
sometimes I'd play a villain's role, sometimes a side role,
sometimes a small guest appearance.
So I kept standing at the bus stop
with a single thought, whatever the weather, stormy or calm,
come rain or come shine, I'd continue standing there.
At some point in time, some bus will come and take me along.
Then in 1976,
a big-time director Basu Chatterjee cast me in his film Priyatama.
So I thought, "Maybe my good phase has finally begun."
Then one day the producer called and said to me,
"We want to cast someone else
because the distributors and the film's heroine,
both have refused to work with you
saying that if you're in the movie then it will never sell."
So the heroine refuses to work with you.
Then Basu Da came to me and said,
"Wait, there's another good role in the film for you, Guddu."
Since it was Basu Da, I couldn't refuse.
But I was deeply hurt by that.
"Why did this happen?"
I went up to our terrace.
And started yelling at God.
I kept yelling and cursing him.
"Why are you doing this to me? I'm working so hard."
When I was making Koi… Mil Gaya,
I created a scene
which depicted the same emotion that I'd experienced in the past.
There was this incident that took place once where I,
Rishi Kapoor, Neetu,
Jeetendra, Shobha,
and Pinkie was with me.
There was a party where we all entered together.
The photographers who were there,
they pushed Pinkie and me roughly away from the group.
Saying, "You guys please step aside, we want to take their photos."
I looked at Pinkie and I felt very bad.
But actually, it was nobody's fault.
Because in our show business, only success matter the most.
Once your picture is flopped, it's a commercial business.
So, they will forget you. They will look at somebody else.
Your best friends, they also can't help it,
because they have to look out for their own bread and butter.
My movies would sometimes do well.
I'd even get praise for my work
but no producers would call me saying, "We want to sign you on."
All the other artists along with me, they'd move ahead,
and I'd stay where I was or even take two steps back.
He played gray shades and villainous shades too.
Which was very creditable to him.
Because in those days, those who made it as heroes
would never play other kinds of characters, but he did.
And that in itself shows that he is a great one to take risks.
I mean, he did Khubsoorat,
where he knew that Rekha is the star of the film.
But he did it, and he did it with full conviction,
and he did it very well.
Same thing goes for Khatta Meetha.
One day I thought,
"Movies are made by producers. Producers never call me.
Why don't I become a producer myself?"
Then I made Kaamchor.
Kaamchor was directed by K. Vishwanath.
He knew exactly how to extract performances from the actors.
And when I used to work with him,
I would become a whole new Rakesh Roshan.
It's a very beautiful film. A simple story.
But what a towering performance by Rakesh Roshan.
You're not acting the part,
but the way you're presenting it is like you're experiencing every scene.
Hero-dominated movie, a hero-oriented film, Kaamchor.
But it didn't take me even a single step ahead.
Jaya Prada became a very big heroine.
So, then I analyzed myself.
There's a thing called projection.
Whatever you're thinking on the inside,
whether it's,
"I need to speak this dialogue like this.
I need to convey these expressions."
But those expressions never make it to your face.
You're unable to project your emotions
either with your eyes or through your facial expressions.
I don't think that he challenged himself much as an actor.
I think he played safe as an actor.
I'll say that.
He… When you play safe,
you're neither here nor there.
Then a time came when I grew exhausted
taking on small roles and cameos.
Everyday calling up producers…
I thought, "How long this will go on?"
So then I decided,
"Now I'm going to be a director.
And when I become a director,
I will never cast Rakesh Roshan as an actor."
That was the stepping stone,
to who he truly needed to become.
And through those failures, you realize
that you were meant to be who you became because of the failures.
It was the premiere of Khudgarz at Metro cinema.
In those days, when a premiere was held
a lot of prominent people from the industry would attend.
Pinkie was with me.
So I turned to Pinkie and said, "Pinkie,
as an actor, I have not succeeded.
As a producer, I've not succeeded.
So this is my last chance. I hope God listens to me."
And that's when I became aware
as to, you know, what all he did to be there.
How much hard work he must have put in for every single movie.
And what a risk-taker he is.
Rakesh ji took over the reins of direction himself with Khudgarz,
he came into his own.
That he came into his prime.
Now it was a remake of Kane and Abel,
but it was so well indigenized, that it worked.
And it worked big time.
The story I narrated to Rajinikanth.
Saying, "There's this role of a Tamilian guy
who opens Udupi restaurants all over the place."
So he said, "Rakesh, the story is very good,
but I've recently done Uttar Dakshin.
I've played a South Indian in that too.
Please cast someone else."
So on TV there was a movie playing called Dost.
In it, I saw that for the first time,
Shatrughan Sinha was playing a comic role.
So then I decided to approach him.
When he came to visit, I was applying oil in my hair.
He said, "Rakesh, you narrate the story to me in just two lines."
"In short."
How could he do it in short?
Firstly he had a performer's style.
He had excitement, he had passion.
When I heard the story,
I was completely blown out of my mind.
I said to him, "Wow."
So I observed how after deeply understanding the subject,
he'd come to the set.
And if he said he wanted the shot a certain way,
it had to be done like that.
So he'd bring up that old theory in front of me and say,
"Either you convince me or I convince you."
Every single actor
figures out on the first day of work what sort of director it is.
So on the first day, I definitely felt that I'm in the hands of someone good.
Until the end of the film, it never came to a point
where I had to ask him, "Why this way, or why that way."
The film Khudgarz has its own internal world.
You actually believed in Bihari.
You actually believed in Jeetu ji's character, who's a rich guy,
who owns this hotel.
You believed in their friendship and it felt very real.
But if you look at it today, it's very filmy.
But he pulled it off with such conviction.
Dramatic? Yes, it was highly dramatic.
In fact, in certain people's view, it was melodramatic.
But it was certainly very impactful.
What was it?
His understanding of drama and how to hold the audience
in a single-screen theater like Gaiety Galaxy,
is the most challenging part of a mainstream director.
And Khoon Bhari Maang… he took a woman-centric film,
and made it into a blockbuster, which in India is very, very difficult.
There are very, very few films that are heroine-centric,
which are blockbusters and do phenomenal business.
And he pulled it with Khoon Bhari Maang.
A lot of people said to me, "Please don't make this film,
because in the end, the wife kills her husband
a film like this will never sell."
So, I even asked Rekha,
"Do you think this story
where the wife kills her husband is okay?
So Rekha said, "It's absolutely okay because you've justified it emotionally."
He had a great understanding of cinema, and he…
His understanding of the subject was perfect.
His scripts would always be strong.
There were emotions in it, there was revenge.
He's got a good sense of,
"This is my story and this is how the story should flow
and you know, move ahead."
Characters, his characters are very strong.
Well yeah, because he himself was an actor, you know.
And… so he knows the graph of every character.
I'm sure when he sits for his scripts,
in his mind, he has already seen the graph
because he's an actor.
With a lot of directors, who have not been actors before,
I kind of question them.
"How'd you know what we're going through,
when everything is faced in our direction?
You're behind the camera. It's a different feeling."
But because Rakesh sir had been an actor before, I think,
there were many times when he would say something or direct me a certain way,
and I had, like, complete and utter trust, because
I knew that he knew what I was talking about.
So I remember when we were shooting for Kishen Kanhaiya,
So Anil ji and Rakesh ji would always have this continuous banter.
So, they took one shot
and Rakesh ji was happy with it.
So I said, "Okay, fine."
So Anil ji came and said,
you know, he wants to do, like, more…
He said, "Should I try it like this? Or maybe I should do this?
Or why don't I try that instead."
So, very patiently Rakesh ji was listening to him.
And then he said,
"Yes, all that sounds fine but I want you to do it just my way."
I joined my father as an assistant
when I was 17 years old.
-That's damn good, man. -Yeah?
My dad used to have an idea every week.
"Let's make this or let's make that."
And I used to mostly be the one that he used to come to first.
And he used to make me hear the story
and sometimes I used to love it. Sometimes I never liked it.
And Karan Arjun's idea was a seed that he had.
I reminded him of that many years later
that, "You had an idea like this. It stayed with me."
So, Karan Arjun had a casting story
that's even more interesting than the actual story of the film.
He narrated the first scene to me.
I think, two children are born in a home, and then they…
They grab hold of each other's hands, and turn to look.
I thought Rakesh ji must be joking.
I said, "How can that happen, Rakesh ji?
Little babies won't hold each other's hands."
"No! It will appear, Karan Arjun!"
So actually from that day, I never understood the film.
So I said to him, "Okay sir, you just call me.
I'll do some action kind of stuff, I know a little bit, how to leap and jump about.
I don't know how to do this film. So you tell me how to do it."
He said, "Okay. You're doing it and Ajay is doing it."
I had this great desire to be an action hero.
People had never offered me an action-hero role.
So I went up to Rakesh ji, I think it was me who went to him.
I said, "No sir, you're giving Ajay the action hero role
and giving me the romantic role once again.
I'll be shooting a slingshot, and he's shooting a gun.
I want you to give me that role."
"So, Karan is an action hero. Arjun is a romantic hero.
If the roles are exchanged, then the movie will get miscast."
He said, "But we want to change our image."
Then I said, "You can change your image but do it in some other film.
In this movie, it requires you to be the same,
what you all are, your image is."
So I went back to Rakesh ji
and I said, "Rakesh ji, I don't know horse riding.
How will I shoot a catapult on horseback? I can't do this.
Please give me that other role, I'll do whatever.
I'll tear my way out of the ground and fight and all."
"No, Ajay is the action hero, blah, blah."
This went on for a while.
So both of them quit the film.
Ajay too, and Shah Rukh also.
So I thought myself, "Whom do I make the film with now?"
Salman heard the story and he agreed immediately.
I narrated it to Aamir and Aamir too…
He said, "Yes, I'll do."
When Shah Rukh found out
that I'm about to start the movie with these two,
then Shah Rukh came to see me.
I said, "No, cast me, please. Please cast me in the movie now.
Don’t, I mean… please don't confuse me any further."
So, I went to Aamir and said, "Listen, Shah Rukh wants to do it."
He said, "Yes, Rakesh. Please go ahead and all the best to you."
Shah Rukh didn't believe in the story at all, of reincarnation.
Salman then said to me,
"You were saying you're going to make a big movie.
You've brought us here to some village in Rajasthan.
I had some other imagination."
I said, "Salman, you're an actor.
You don't have to imagine, where I'll make the film."
They started losing interest in the film.
The shot is ready. The sun is setting. We're calling them. They're not coming.
They show up at the last moment, we're rushing through the shot.
Basically, to speak of it in film terms, the two of them harassed him a lot.
They would make fun of him,
or they would refuse to cooperate with him on the sets.
Yes, we really troubled him a lot.
Because we both were very naughty, mischievous.
I think Pinkie ji too, came over and really scolded us,
saying "You're really troubling Guddu a lot.
I didn't expect this of you."
Because you know, between Salman and I, I was a little well-behaved.
At least on the face of it.
So I told her, "I don't do it, he's the one who does all this.
So we were like two young kids,
really troubling a father figure, to be honest.
When I'd say something, they'd say, "No, let's do this instead."
And I'd say, "No, I want it this way."
So then they'd get a bit upset.
So, like once he said, "I want you to get angry and yell, 'Kutte!'"
I've never spoken like that in the film.
I said, "Rakesh ji, 'Kutta' is something I can't say."
Then there was "Harami".
"No, I can't say that. Just let me just scream, 'Aah!'"
To convince an educated audience
that Karan and Arjun are lying dead here and a few scenes later,
they're playing somewhere else.
And nobody questions, "How can this happen?"
You just get carried away with the flow.
That is director's power.
Despite the fact that Karan Arjun is an unbelievable subject,
but by mixing it with a dose of mythology,
by adding a dose of mother's emotions,
it was made believable that way.
No, you see, this is what is called
suspension of disbelief.
The audience is prepared to take their disbelief and sweep it to the side,
that such a thing is beyond belief,
so they are willing to forget about it.
On the condition that you entertain them,
touch everybody's hearts
that you make them smile, or that you even bring tears to their eyes.
And that is the secret of good commercial cinema.
There was a particular scene being shot
where Salman Khan's character is reborn,
and he gets flashes of his past life.
And I was home.
I had a 102 temperature. I was sick.
And I had a vision of how I think we should get the flashbacks in.
So in my fever, my feverish state,
sweating and you know, I took an auto-rickshaw,
and I went to Mehboob Studios.
And I entered the studio and I went to my dad, and I said,
"Papa…" The moment I saw him,
all the air went out of me.
Because I know that now, you know, it's gonna be a losing battle,
because he's already, you know, shot.
I said, "Oh, shit! What do I do now?"
I said I can't just stop. I have to…
I know what I'm seeing in my head is really good.
So I went to Bhiku Verma, who was the action director.
And I very easily sold it to him.
And then he went to my dad, and then I went behind him.
Like this. Fingers crossed.
And he goes to my dad,
and he says, "His idea is amazing."
My dad goes like, "Huh?
Hmm, good. Sound good."
As teenagers, you know, my friend Goldie and I,
we were obsessed with Karan Arjun.
You know, we used to all have fights over who'll play Karan,
who'll play Arjun, when we were playing.
Reenacting the climax. The dialogues.
We were so happy because we went for the screening on Monday,
then we went on Friday, and on Saturday.
I think I must have seen it at least 10-12 times in the theaters.
We were hooked and absolutely mesmerized by this film.
Clapping and whistling and shouting.
I thought, "Damn! What are people loving about this film?"
Especially that shot where the babies grab each other's hands
and turn their faces. Karan Arjun.
Right from there, the whoops and cheers began.
The whole film was… everybody was screaming and shouting.
And I remember, I went out, and I think I touched Rakesh ji's feet.
"Yes, I'm really sorry. I didn't understand the film."
He said, "Now you get it?"
So for me, I did everything that I was against in my head as an actor.
and this was a learning experience that sometimes,
I don't have to believe in the character I'm playing.
I have to make the audience believe in the character I'm playing.
And I am glad that I was forced into it by Rakesh ji
in whichever way, because it's one of my biggest givings to the audience.
And credit for it is fully Rakesh ji's, not mine.
The way Rakesh ji uses music in his films is a case study.
Every track in every film of his has got soul
and it takes the story forward.
So when the songs come up in his films,
you don't go, "Oh God, not another song."
You're more invested and you enjoy the music.
So that's his sense of music.
He was on cycle.
And I remember there was this dance step that I just wasn't getting.
I mean, I didn't even know how to lip-sync.
I also had no understanding of dance.
So actually, that's my first picturized song.
Before that, I had probably done one Punjabi song
on television for Lekh Tandon ji.
But I've never done a song-song.
So, for me, that song holds a great memory and place.
Koyla's soundtrack is my favorite Rakesh Roshan soundtrack
of all time, leaps and bounds.
And we used to have cassettes.
So, once you finished it, you had to rewind the whole side.
And I think the tape got really worn out
because I'd listened to it many times.
Recently, I went to Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh.
And I was supposed to spend about three-four days there with the military.
And they excitedly said to me,
"Let us take you to this famous waterfall,"
and then they told me, "Remember that song from Koyla
in which Madhuri ji's dance number was picturized?
These are the same waterfalls."
So I said, "Oh, really!" So, it's just…
This kind of legacy that those films have made…
I think from Calcutta we drove for 17 and a half hours.
All the artists.
We were a huge caravan of cars.
We went driving all the way there.
Of course, we had some difficulties
because it was at a height.
There were so many scenes of us running.
We would run for 20 feet
and get out of breath there on those mountains.
But the way the locations looked on screen…
I feel locations also play a big character in a film.
We're making a movie,
and we're transporting people into a different world.
A world they don't usually see.
And we can actually show it to them.
Very hard work, that film.
More hard than Karan Arjun also, in terms of action and everything.
I remember we had gone to Hyderabad to shoot
in the hot sun in a coal mine.
I actually set myself on fire for that particular film.
I don't know how. I was crazy then.
I watch that shot now and I get scared myself.
But the emotional content that Rakesh ji has, which I have noticed,
is the story of an underdog.
That person, or that man or even that woman
whom life or society has driven to adversity,
dismissing them as weak.
They're completely pushed to the wall, and crushed, or destroyed,
or killed, like in Karan Arjun.
But they will come back.
So his storytelling is about survival.
The heroism
and the ultimate mission accomplished,
it all, like, kind of, like, reflects his own arc.
Because he was the underdog.
And his struggle and then his victory…
I think there is some kind of a parallel there that I can see.
Maybe that is why
he chose subjects that needed and warranted,
you know, a different kind of a hero.